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 Post subject: Annihilation
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Need further understanding about annihilation/extinction. As God is Love how can love annihilate anything? There are different levels where opportunities are given to change - into eons. How is something annihilated? Is it a transformation or just not being at all. And again how can that be in Universes of Love and Truth.
Antoinette


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The reality here is better described as "self" annihilation. It is no limit of mercy nor withdrawal of love that causes this most unfortunate end for some, and I think, very few. One must endlessly choose a knowing rebellion and acting against the known will of God - knowledge of reality or in the difference is required. We have had many a long discussion and debate here over the years as to whether a mortal mind can get to such a place on the planet of origin. There is a long presentation on mercy and justice in the Revelation - mercy can become exhausted or made futile given sufficient time, by the mind of some. Sin, disloyalty, and betrayal are distorters of the mind. Choosing sin and iniquity, knowingly and endlessly, twists a mind to a point where it is too crippled and distorted to respond to love - the only reality. The mind becomes too unreal and too detached to accept the love within mercy. Mercy is rejected, repeatedly, before the mind self-annihilates eventually. But such a mind is still afforded a long due process of examination and representation prior to being allowed to vanish.

(36.6) 2:3.1 God is righteous; therefore is he just. “The Lord is righteous in all his ways.” “‘I have not done without cause all that I have done,’ says the Lord.” “The judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.” The justice of the Universal Father cannot be influenced by the acts and performances of his creatures, “for there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, no respect of persons, no taking of gifts.”

(36.7) 2:3.2 How futile to make puerile appeals to such a God to modify his changeless decrees so that we can avoid the just consequences of the operation of his wise natural laws and righteous spiritual mandates! “Be not deceived; God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap.” True, even in the justice of reaping the harvest of wrongdoing, this divine justice is always tempered with mercy. Infinite wisdom is the eternal arbiter which determines the proportions of justice and mercy which shall be meted out in any given circumstance. The greatest punishment (in reality an inevitable consequence) for wrongdoing and deliberate rebellion against the government of God is loss of existence as an individual subject of that government. The final result of wholehearted sin is annihilation. In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with.

(37.1) 2:3.3 Cessation of existence is usually decreed at the dispensational or epochal adjudication of the realm or realms. On a world such as Urantia it comes at the end of a planetary dispensation. Cessation of existence can be decreed at such times by co-ordinate action of all tribunals of jurisdiction, extending from the planetary council up through the courts of the Creator Son to the judgment tribunals of the Ancients of Days. The mandate of dissolution originates in the higher courts of the superuniverse following an unbroken confirmation of the indictment originating on the sphere of the wrongdoer’s residence; and then, when sentence of extinction has been confirmed on high, the execution is by the direct act of those judges residential on, and operating from, the headquarters of the superuniverse.

(37.2) 2:3.4 When this sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been. There is no resurrection from such a fate; it is everlasting and eternal. The living energy factors of identity are resolved by the transformations of time and the metamorphoses of space into the cosmic potentials whence they once emerged. As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature’s failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life. When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.

(38.4) 2:4.4 Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness.

(38.5) 2:4.5 Divine mercy represents a fairness technique of adjustment between the universe levels of perfection and imperfection. Mercy is the justice of Supremacy adapted to the situations of the evolving finite, the righteousness of eternity modified to meet the highest interests and universe welfare of the children of time. Mercy is not a contravention of justice but rather an understanding interpretation of the demands of supreme justice as it is fairly applied to the subordinate spiritual beings and to the material creatures of the evolving universes. Mercy is the justice of the Paradise Trinity wisely and lovingly visited upon the manifold intelligences of the creations of time and space as it is formulated by divine wisdom and determined by the all-knowing mind and the sovereign free will of the Universal Father and all his associated Creators.

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(615.4) 54:3.2 Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty — the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil — a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself.

(615.5) 54:3.3 But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers.

(616.5) 54:4.6 Supreme justice can act instantly when not restrained by divine mercy. But the ministry of mercy to the children of time and space always provides for this time lag, this saving interval between seedtime and harvest. If the seed sowing is good, this interval provides for the testing and upbuilding of character; if the seed sowing is evil, this merciful delay provides time for repentance and rectification. This time delay in the adjudication and execution of evildoers is inherent in the mercy ministry of the seven superuniverses. This restraint of justice by mercy proves that God is love, and that such a God of love dominates the universes and in mercy controls the fate and judgment of all his creatures.

(616.6) 54:4.7 The mercy delays of time are by the mandate of the free will of the Creators. There is good to be derived in the universe from this technique of patience in dealing with sinful rebels. While it is all too true that good cannot come of evil to the one who contemplates and performs evil, it is equally true that all things (including evil, potential and manifest) work together for good to all beings who know God, love to do his will, and are ascending Paradiseward according to his eternal plan and divine purpose.

(616.7) 54:4.8 But these mercy delays are not interminable. Notwithstanding the long delay (as time is reckoned on Urantia) in adjudicating the Lucifer rebellion, we may record that, during the time of effecting this revelation, the first hearing in the pending case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer was held on Uversa, and soon thereafter there issued the mandate of the Ancients of Days directing that Satan be henceforth confined to the prison world with Lucifer. This ends the ability of Satan to pay further visits to any of the fallen worlds of Satania. Justice in a mercy-dominated universe may be slow, but it is certain.

(619.3) 54:6.6 At first the Lucifer upheaval appeared to be an unmitigated calamity to the system and to the universe. Gradually benefits began to accrue. With the passing of twenty-five thousand years of system time (twenty thousand years of Urantia time), the Melchizedeks began to teach that the good resulting from Lucifer’s folly had come to equal the evil incurred. The sum of evil had by that time become almost stationary, continuing to increase only on certain isolated worlds, while the beneficial repercussions continued to multiply and extend out through the universe and superuniverse, even to Havona. The Melchizedeks now teach that the good resulting from the Satania rebellion is more than a thousand times the sum of all the evil.

(619.4) 54:6.7 But such an extraordinary and beneficent harvest of wrongdoing could only be brought about by the wise, divine, and merciful attitude of all of Lucifer’s superiors, extending from the Constellation Fathers on Edentia to the Universal Father on Paradise. The passing of time has enhanced the consequential good to be derived from the Lucifer folly; and since the evil to be penalized was quite fully developed within a comparatively short time, it is apparent that the all-wise and farseeing universe rulers would be certain to extend the time in which to reap increasingly beneficial results. Regardless of the many additional reasons for delaying the apprehension and adjudication of the Satania rebels, this one gain would have been enough to explain why these sinners were not sooner interned, and why they have not been adjudicated and destroyed.

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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 Post subject: Re: Annihilation
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Need further understanding about annihilation/extinction. As God is Love how can love annihilate anything? There are different levels where opportunities are given to change - into eons. How is something annihilated? Is it a transformation or just not being at all. And again how can that be in Universes of Love and Truth.
Antoinette


We are co-creating soul with our adjuster. We have the free will choice to choose sin and thereby slowly begin to destroy our own soul. Annihilation is a choice made by the creature/spirit being. Sin is not a really a judgment. Sin is a technical thing. Its literally a technique of self destruction. So there isn't anything God can do to stop you from destroying yourself because we all have free will.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
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Hi Antoinette, The only way to annihilate yourself (your personality) is by sinning consistently and knowingly. According to the book, sin is the attitude of a personality who is knowingly resisting cosmic reality, it is a purposeful resistance to divine reality, a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress, iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality ..
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67:1.4 There are many ways of looking at sin, but from the universe philosophic viewpoint sin is the attitude of a personality who is knowingly resisting cosmic reality. Error might be regarded as a misconception or distortion of reality. Evil is a partial realization of, or maladjustment to, universe realities. But sin is a purposeful resistance to divine reality — a conscious choosing to oppose spiritual progress — while iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity.

The choice to survive (or not) must be a conscious choice. All will creatures are to experience one true opportunity (not likely in this life) to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice ..
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112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.


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Like Brother Bart Said ... :wink:

Our Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith.

155:6.17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith.

And That
{ALL} will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice.''

ALL Get A Final Choice To Choose .
Thats the Gift of Freewill Choice and Mercy.

IT IS Really That Simple .

112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that ALL will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.


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 Post subject: Re: Annihilation
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I appreciate God's patience and mercy, but "not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom..."

The quote is this
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140:1.4 “But for you, my children, and for all others who would follow you into this kingdom, there is set a severe test. Faith alone will pass you through its portals, but you must bring forth the fruits of my Father’s spirit if you would continue to ascend in the progressive life of the divine fellowship. Verily, verily, I say to you, not every one who says, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but rather he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The doors to the kingdom aren't shut here on earth, opportunity still exists on mansonia as well; Notice how it says "Continue to ascend".
And IMO, I believe this is simply a strict reminder to all those who claim to be good followers of the "Lord" and wouldn't help out a stranger in need while passing by to go to church for example. (Including myself)

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I couldn't find the portion in the Papers which actually gives a % of those who typically will never resurrect. It is a substantial amount on this planet and others.
And you will never do, forget not that this revelation is for this age, and for many many ages to come, giving a percentage would serve no real spiritual value at any rate.

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Some people I know are unloving, because they simply prefer that. They enjoy it. It is chosen way of life for them, and no one else is to blame (not ignorance, not society, and not their parents) and they admit it. I have heard it from them, and they promise if they get out of prison to do more of it.


Most people don't even know themselves! Even if they think they do. Kind of like a 5 year old saying "I don't want to kiss a girl because its yucky"
If we are lucky we would live up to a 100 Years old. However, on a regular planet , the mortals of a realm live up to 400~500 years of age and even in the stages of Light and Life only a portio of them only reach the 3rd psychic circle.
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55:4.2 Upon the formal inauguration of the planetary ministry of the Corps of the Finality, the majority of the celestial hosts withdraw. But the seraphic guardians of destiny continue their personal ministry to the progressing mortals in light; indeed such angels come in ever-increasing numbers throughout the settled ages since larger and larger groups of human beings reach the third cosmic circle of co-ordinate mortal attainment during the planetary life span.

My point is, we are practically babies with respect to our spiritual age, we DON'T really KNOW what we are saying; Those people you heard them say such sentences are only seeking love, they just don't know it yet, its a cry for help, for attention, for self-value, for love.

Anyway, like Brother FOV said, there had been some very lengthy discussions regarding this topic here on the forum, you are welcome to browse them and explore the excellent points the forum members had made regarding the different point of views regarding this issue.

I welcome your input brother, and thank you for it, I hope we can all emerge from this discussion with better understanding of our spiritual ascension scheme, looking forward for your further input.
God Bless

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Mark,
9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


Last edited by kicoverz on Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:03 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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okay, thanks kindly for replies


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Also appreciate your patience. I have previous religious and spiritual systems bouncing around in my mind, in addition to more recently the Urantia Papers.
Only one of the previous paths supported annihilation (don't like that word very much), but appreciate the loving provision where it is to be judged most
merciful and, if even for a very few, but I'd be happy to stay asleep. Really. I probably tried to rush being knowledgeable about the Papers.
I still find the Psalms bring the most peace of mind in terms of
religious writing, and also more conservative morals, that I'm not sure fit with the Urantia movement of the times, but my wife tells me that it's God, love, and the
revelation that matter, and to ignore some of the people promoting the "current mores" which also pass away in time. Concerning prayer, I haven't really found
anything like Islam. I honestly don't think I now fit squarely in any religion or the Urantia movement, but overall feel the Papers are the truest and potentially
most helpful overall to humanity. At the end of the day, I can't prove the Papers to others or to myself, and there's this nagging feeling that no one really
knows what happens after we leave this current life until it actually happens, and that along with everything else that comes to earth, nothing is flawless or 100% truth.
Anyway, appreciate you all letting me express some about annihilation and adding your various insights from the Papers. Getting way back to the original question, I
sincerely believe that the eternal journey or eternal nonexistence are both and equally God's love and wonderful.
I remember reading somewhere in the Papers about some of the angels who oversee the religions not wishing for humans to know everything about what happens
when we leave this current life and then awake.
Don't know. I guess I'm feeling more like it's okay not to know somethings. And that's it's okay to not view the Papers as a Bible or unaltered Quran.
Thanks again.


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eric777 wrote:
Okay, thanks kindly for replies
… I remember reading somewhere in the Papers about some of the angels who oversee the religions not wishing for humans to know everything about what happens when we leave this current life and then awake. Don't know. I guess I'm feeling more like it's okay not to know somethings. And that's it's okay to not view the Papers as a Bible or unaltered Quran.
Thanks again.
(Are u Antoinette?) Can you perhaps provide the exact paragraph in TUB that you think states we shouldn’t know everything about what happens when we leave this current life and then awake? Note that TUB is very explicit about what happens after we die, much more so then your Bible or Quran. And how do you think this is relevant to the original question: how can a god of love annihilate anything..?


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Dear Brother Eric,

From your statements I can't help but get the feeling that you are in a deep inquisitive state right now about the most important questions of existence. I envy you, it is an unsettling but nonetheless a very beneficial state to be in from a spiritual point of you , you are in the cocoon , and you will emerge from the experience with new and better insights, a rebirth so to speak.

I would really encourage you to post any such questions here on this forum and I guarantee you will get some marvelous insights that will help you come up with the answers you are looking for during your seasons of personal prayer and meditation; in the end, the only one that can truly speak to your soul are the spirit ministries because they know you most. (TA, spirit of Truth, Holy Spirit and the guardians) We can only help supply the favorable conditions and spiritual materials for contemplation...

I am curious, have you finished reading the book entirely yet ?
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Concerning prayer, I haven't really found
anything like Islam. I honestly don't think I now fit squarely in any religion or the Urantia movement, but overall feel the Papers are the truest and potentially
most helpful overall to humanity

I think what I admire most about the Islamic prayer is that they do it five times per day consistently, they actually dedicate time for prayer in the middle of their daily lives, not just do it subconsciously while working on some other thing, even if it's for 5 - 10 minutes, I believe it is most beneficial to do so in such intervals. Kind of like hitting " refresh" for our spiritual connectivity .
Quote:
At the end of the day, I can't prove the Papers to others or to myself, and there's this nagging feeling that no one really
knows what happens after we leave this current life until it actually happens, and that along with everything else that comes to earth, nothing is flawless or 100% truth.


As to your question of what happens after we die, I have read the Qur'an, the Bible (old testament and new ) , Bhagvad Gita, and some on the Buddhist teachings; And I have to say, I found the most comprehensive , consistent, logical, rational , and convincing of all the teachings to be in the UB, as a matter of fact, in a way the UB indirectly explains where the other notions / Ideas about the postmortem existence of the other religions originated from , it really draws the Whole picture.

I can recommend some papers if you are interested.

The only possible way to truly prove the papers to yourself is by Personal Spiritual Experience predicated on FAITH, I leave you with some GEMS to perhaps aid you in your contemplation
God Bless

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102:6.5 Convictions about God may be arrived at through wise reasoning, but the individual becomes God-knowing only by faith, through personal experience. In much that pertains to life, probability must be reckoned with, but when contacting with cosmic reality, certainty may be experienced when such meanings and values are approached by living faith. The God-knowing soul dares to say, “I know,” even when this knowledge of God is questioned by the unbeliever who denies such certitude because it is not wholly supported by intellectual logic. To every such doubter the believer only replies, “How do you know that I do not know?”

101:1.4 Religion lives and prospers, then, not by sight and feeling, but rather by faith and insight. It consists not in the discovery of new facts or in the finding of a unique experience, but rather in the discovery of new and spiritual meanings in facts already well known to mankind. The highest religious experience is not dependent on prior acts of belief, tradition, and authority; neither is religion the offspring of sublime feelings and purely mystical emotions. It is, rather, a profoundly deep and actual experience of spiritual communion with the spirit influences resident within the human mind, and as far as such an experience is definable in terms of psychology, it is simply the experience of experiencing the reality of believing in God as the reality of such a purely personal experience.

102:6.4 Faith transforms the philosophic God of probability into the saving God of certainty in the personal religious experience. Skepticism may challenge the theories of theology, but confidence in the dependability of personal experience affirms the truth of that belief which has grown into faith.

146:3.4 And Jesus said to Thomas: “Your assurance that you have entered into the kingdom family of the Father, and that you will eternally survive with the children of the kingdom, is wholly a matter of personal experience — faith in the word of truth. Spiritual assurance is the equivalent of your personal religious experience in the eternal realities of divine truth and is otherwise equal to your intelligent understanding of truth realities plus your spiritual faith and minus your honest doubts.

_________________
Mark,
9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Thanks for your reply and any links are welcome. About a year ago or so, when I first started reading the UB, I honestly got so challenged
and overwhelmed that I took the UB and threw it as hard as I could in the dumpster. Of course later, with deep regrets and purchased
another. Things seem to be going forward, and have been blessed that my brother has begun reading the UB also and his wife. I have lived
in some very uniform predictable religious settings/sects, so am overcoming some of this, hopefully more in God's love and less reactions
as time goes on. I realize I'm off the subject of annihilation here, but wanted to reply and welcome links here or PM'd. I do want to
apologize where I haven't shown love on the forum. Am really seeking to keep walking forward with God and the UB and Christ Michael, and
somehow hold onto that which has been good and helpful in past religious settings and experiences. There are some personal spiritual
experiences I've had that don't seem to be addressed in the UB, but am thinking maybe the UB can't address everything, feel like I do have
alot to sort out, but seeking to be more prayful and patient about it all. thanks again.


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eric777 wrote:
Thanks for your reply and any links are welcome. About a year ago or so, when I first started reading the UB, I honestly got so challenged
and overwhelmed that I took the UB and threw it as hard as I could in the dumpster. Of course later, with deep regrets and purchased
another. Things seem to be going forward, and have been blessed that my brother has begun reading the UB also and his wife. I have lived
in some very uniform predictable religious settings/sects, so am overcoming some of this, hopefully more in God's love and less reactions
as time goes on. I realize I'm off the subject of annihilation here, but wanted to reply and welcome links here or PM'd. I do want to
apologize where I haven't shown love on the forum. Am really seeking to keep walking forward with God and the UB and Christ Michael, and
somehow hold onto that which has been good and helpful in past religious settings and experiences. There are some personal spiritual
experiences I've had that don't seem to be addressed in the UB, but am thinking maybe the UB can't address everything, feel like I do have
alot to sort out, but seeking to be more prayful and patient about it all. thanks again.


:)
I seriously doubt that there isn't a single topic relative to our spiritual ascent that the UB can't address, Just give it a shot, whatever is on your mind, that deep question with no answer, ask it here on the forum, start a new thread , and type in your question.

or better yet, simply do a word search using the advanced search engine of the urantia book, here : http://truthbook.com/search/urantia-book-search-engine

or for a quick comprehensive research you can also try the online index , here http://urantia-book.org/urantiabook/Topical_Index/INDEX.htm

and the various topical studies and study aids located on the truthbook website if you're interested.

As to the recommended readings regarding religion and their origin I would suggest the following
These will help you understand how the religions of the world came to be so to speak

93. Machiventa Melchizedek - Melchizedek
94. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Orient - Melchizedek
95. The Melchizedek Teachings in the Levant - Melchizedek

These will help you understand our relationship to religion as mortals of Urantia


92. The Later Evolution of Religion - Melchizedek
99. The Social Problems of Religion - Melchizedek
100. Religion in Human Experience - Melchizedek
101. The Real Nature of Religion - Melchizedek
102. The Foundations of Religious Faith - Melchizedek
103. The Reality of Religious Experience - Melchizedek

and if you are still tickled there's also

85. The Origins of Worship - Brilliant Evening Star
86. Early Evolution of Religion - Brilliant Evening Star

91. The Evolution of Prayer - Chief of Midwayers

Just read the paper which the title interests you most, but the Machiventa Melchizedek one's are very important with regards to the evolution of religion

God Bless you Brother,

_________________
Mark,
9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Thank you, will do this.


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kicoverz, also appreciate deeply what you also shared and will reflect on this, and look into further as well.
Yes, have finished reading the UB for the first time, and have prayerfully begun again, and studying.


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