Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Thu Jun 19, 2025 3:47 pm +0000

The TruthBook forum will no longer accept new posts. Please continue to read, search, and enjoy all posts made to prior October 28. No login is needed now to access the valuable resource, so it is open to everyone! For more information, please click HERE.

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » Main » Questions & Answers

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  Page 1 of 1
  [ 8 posts ] 
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:56 pm +0000
Posts: 14
Location: North Carolina
The biggest problem I encounter with the Urantia Book when I present it to others is this question, especially among hard-core Christians. Now, I have to say that when I am talking about the UB with non-believers, I am not always suave. There is so much info... Anyway. When I tell them about how there is no original sin, and how the purpose for this life is to gain character, mixed in with the fact that there is no hell, I get asked, "Why do good then? Why not just do whatever you want if there is no hell and no penalty for your actions?" I try to explain that there is a time penalty involved; that the more you strive to do God's will and follow his ways the closer you become to him and the less you would want to do ungodlike actions. But still, they are hung up on the hell-not-existing-so-I-can-do-whatever-I-want-with-no-consequences thing. How can I present this topic without encountering so much resistance. Is it my inability to orate the UB that is the problem?

_________________
Live long, and prosper.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:47 pm +0000
Posts: 550
Location: South Carolina
Here are some points I make to people.

1 - you're correct in stating that a true "seeker" of God would want to advance the way he/she lives their daily life, and grow closer with God.

I also continue with the discussion point that who you are now is who you will be in the next life. Your inner self will be your 'outer shell". ( so to speak) Unlike the christian doctrine that you are "perfected" at death, i always explain that though you are given an eternal body, you are not made perfect in heaven. You have to attain that perfection as you attain a higher spiritual growth. So, what you put off today, YOU WILL have to account for and deal with at some point. If you "truly" wish to do Gods will, and wish to further your spiritual self in the next life. There are "rewards" so to speak for what you accomplish, and the more you strive to do Gods will, the more your spirit will grow, and the further along in "heaven' or the mansion worlds you will get.

Also, to be "conscious" in spirit, and Know that what you are doing is not Gods will, or making the choice not to choose to live a better life here - is actually being God conscious, and yet turning your back on his offer/love for your life.
To know sin, and still choose to do it does have consiquences and you will have to answer for that.
NO, you may not go to Hell as the christians teach, but you will continue in your own personal hell as long as you refuse to accept Gods love for you, or refuse to do that which you know to be right.

To not know God, or sin, and not yet have an understanding, or moment of "God Consciousness" as it says in the UB is totally different than KNOWING and still refusing.
You are actually turning away from God, which carries much more disapointment from God.

End with this, they are not living a life that God does not know of. God knows their heart, he knows their spirit. He knows whether they are living "ignorant" of God, or simply by their own choice. Once you become aware of God, you are personally responsible for your actions, and that part of it and judgement of this life will still impact them after death.

I don't know about them, but as we all know, you are never promised tomorrow. And for me personally, I want to meet God with a pure heart, and stand before him ( or how ever it happens to unfold) knowing that I will hear the words, "WELL DONE MY TRUE AND FAITHFUL DAUGHTER"

I want to enter the next phase knowing i did the very best I could, because only by doing that can I live and eventually face death with complete peace in where i'm going, and how I will be welcomed when i get there. For those of us who live God's will in life, there is no fear of death.

And i can promise that most if not all of those who you speak of -- if they continue to just 'use" the mercy, grace and love of God so pathetically, they will not meet death in peace.


How foolish of them to look at what God offers us out of his love for us - and think they can simply turn their back on him and not at some point be held accountable for that decision. That is not what the UB teaches.

What it is saying is that the people in my life who do not take their spiritual life important in this life will still be offered a choice after death. What it is saying is for our own personal peace. So that we as believers and seekers of truth that understand and "know' God, - WE can be at peace.

It was given to us because so many of us could not accept the teachings of hell, and the pain it caused US - thinking that God would not give all people whether our family,and friends, or yours the chance to choose again and still have eternal life. These teachings were meant to give peace to our hearts and souls, and to understand that God loves them even more than we do.

To sum it up, i believe this knowledge shared in the UB was meant for the peace it would bring to the faithful - not to give the soul a "loop hole" into eternal life.


Hope i was able to get this point across.

Blessings,.

Angel

_________________
''The evolving soul is not made divine by what it does, but by what it strives to do"

The Urantia Book

'Laus Deo"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 am +0000
Posts: 1773
nebadonomega wrote:
But still, they are hung up on the hell-not-existing-so-I-can-do-whatever-I-want-with-no-consequences thing. How can I present this topic without encountering so much resistance. Is it my inability to orate the UB that is the problem?


There is no such thing as "no consequences". The laws of cause and effect still apply, the Eastern religions call it karma. Western religions say, "You reap what you sow." Jesus taught that we have a responsibility, not only to God and to ourselves, but to one another as well, a responsibility to be the very best we can be.

You can tell your listeners (if they are really listening), that it is childish to think there are no consequences. If lenient parents leave their children unattended, do they destroy the house because they know there is no punishment and Mom and Dad will fix everything? Maybe. But sooner or later, they run out of resources and realize that they don't want to live in a destroyed house. It's called growing up.

But our God is not a lenient parent, even though he doesn't keep a secret hell in the basement to throw away the misbehaving children. He does chastise and correct our errors, if we would only listen. Initially, we hear and abide by our own conscience, then we grow up and hear the truth of the living God. Ask your listeners if they have a conscience.

Our society is already running amok. Look at all the "pop tarts" out there ruining their lives because they can do what ever they want without consequences. Sooner or later, they must reap what they sow, there's no way around it. The fear should not be of hell, but of self-destruction. And the sad thing about self-destruction is, that it also destroys other people's lives. Where's the love in that? The morals of a society are critical to the early development of a conscience. From there decisions are made which hopefully result in a more mature attitude and soul growth. And it is this personal growth that eventually results in the growth of the world away from error and sin. It's called growing up.

Quote:
145:2.8    "No more should you fear that God will punish a nation for the sin of an individual; neither will the Father in heaven punish one of his believing children for the sins of a nation, albeit the individual member of any family must often suffer the material consequences of family mistakes and group transgressions. Do you not realize that the hope of a better nation—or a better world—is bound up in the progress and enlightenment of the individual?"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:09 am +0000
Posts: 722
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I would challenge their sense of morality. I would ask them, "Do you do good only because you are afraid of going to hell?"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:06 pm +0000
Posts: 12
they are hung up on the hell-not-existing-so-I-can-do-whatever-I-want-with-no-consequences thing.


I do not comment much here because my grammar is less than adequate when it comes to proper sentence structure but I so love the dialogue and love to share my own understanding as of Now. ;)

As for your dilemma , I can relate.


What we can’t seem to grasp is the concept that there are no wrong choices. If you remain aware of the fact that the personal physical , emotional and spiritual result of our choices are simply indicators that let us know whether or not we are in alignment with Truth. Friction is the "evil" of all motion. No matter which direction something moves in, friction pulls it the other way. Move something left, friction pulls right. Move something up, friction pulls down. It appears as if nature has given us friction to stop us from moving anything. It would seem it was created to keep us in alignment with what is intended to be. I would describe it as a universal law set in place to keep us immovable from “The Way”. The problem is that we fail to recognize that there is in fact a “Way” . It Is the only way - no matter how many scenarios or mind made exceptions to the rule we may imagine. If we are acting or believing contrary to the way the universe intended things to be then we will feel the friction or consequences to our actions. Consequences being, are our percieved cause and effects caused by how accurate our ‘thinking’ is according to what IS. What IS - being - The Way . The Way - being - Reality. God like - being -Truth. The unwavering never changing true reality. The way it IS. I am under the impression that there are no good or evil choices, only choices that cause lubricity or friction. There for the hell that people believe in is a fear of self induced chaos due to a result of their own actions. Although it may seem like a metaphor I would personally describe friction as being literally the cause and effect we experience on a daily bases. Down to the very relationship of charged particles, including electrons, protons, atoms and molecules. Friction is simply the effort to keep something in place. When I say (in place) I am referring to our state of Being in the reality that allows us to experience the peaceful flow of the universe, according to the creator. This is ‘The Way” which is a coined phrase by religions all over the world.

So when someone says they believe in Hell I would say - Wonderful! Because what they are expressing is a belief in something created for them to experience a short cut to an experience far more wonderful then they can imagine. The word Hell is just an interpretation of many a decade of cause and effect due to choices that have been made contrary to the ‘way’ and the results have been documented and compiled and taught in hopes to keep us from choosing to do it that way because it has been a tried and forever failing way to experience peace, love and happiness. We may call it Hell but it is actually the opposite effect of making choices that would alternately lead us to experiencing Heaven on earth.

I say “So what they believe in Hell” it maybe a very remedial way of avoiding misalignment but as long as it keeps them in a place of least resistance to what Is, I say let them believe in it. That’s is the point isn’t is? To experience a life of peace, love and happiness? Of coarse if the choices they make are contrary to what IS then they are going to experience friction and if they are honest with themselves and are seeking Truth then they will question their choices no matter what they are taught in the classroom of life- be it religion home or streets - because when we experience chaos and friction we are not happy within the depths of who we are, which is a built in indicator that we must not be making choices that align with truth.

We interpret life and simplify it, document it, all in the hopes of keeping others from having to suffer. We may claim to have the answers which will help lead others to that which we desire most in life. Some may reffer to it as ‘wisdom’ but in truth we have simply discovered how to make choices in our lives that align with the Way to remain in a state of being that aligns with what IS. Spiritually we love one another and have the best interests of others in our hearts. Consciously we allow our ego to get in the way and ego likes to make a buck and lead but remember Truth is priceless. ;) it is already paid for. We just have to seek it within ourselves because that is where it is and it speaks for itself.

Let them believe in their idea of Hell it is only a belief and depending on how true the knowledge that is taught in that religion is it can only guide them to the Truth . The ability to comprehend it will be according to their own personal growth on their own personal journey . Some people need rules and structure because they are afraid to think for themselves and that’s ok, however, should they become curious and knock on that door it will be opened to them but that takes courage , fear or hell is not a reality at that point.

This is my personal opinion which is a mere reflection of my own truth. I too am willing to share what I have come to know in hopes to keep another from suffering needlessly but choose for yourself it is your journey.

I wish you less Friction and more Lubricity or better said Alignment with what IS…

…love…
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:19 pm +0000
Posts: 92
Location: Florida, USA
nebadonmega, angel, Bonita, iamuurme:

. . . a concern that comes up, often

the impression i am given when reading replies, here, is that the "reason" to behaving lovingly - toward God, self, others - roots itself in our loving relationship w/ The Father. He first loves us and all else blossoms from that "place".

(iamuurme, i appreciate your writing style - form and content - no need to apologize nor hold back, please . . . this forum needs you)

when i read "pop tart" i was filled with compassion. evil doers could very well be acting out their perceived distance from our Loving God, likely so. for me, instead of imparting facts about hell or not it seems most important to guide our fellows into the already existing loving relationships at hand w/ Michael and Creative Mother, all Glory for such to The Father.

just a couple of quick thoughts this morning,
susan
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:06 pm +0000
Posts: 12
Oopsy! I misread your original post. I believe I coveredwhat I wanted to but my response was more geared toward those who do believe in hell. Which I am sure you can gather from my response that (In my opinion) hell is not what it seems to be. It is to me the absence of light and of coarse in the absence of light we are capable of imagining the most horrific hell possible. I do not think it is necessary to introduce Hell/darkenss to someone who does is already in a dark place . They are very aware of darkness. whay not introduce them to the light/ God. Language everything to some and nothing to another, but expression is everything to everyone. Maybe they believe in exactly what you believe only it is in different terms. This wonderful experience is in fact being interpreted by each and every one of us within our ability to comprehend. Your definition of Hell may infact be a threat to their ego and may come across as judgment. Ignorant of somthing is not somthing the ego likes to admit so why bring it to its attention? It is the ego that we are dealing with at this point. It would seem so much more fruitful if you would forget about hell and focus on the amazing opportunity and abundance that they can become aware of by becoming aware of who they truly are. They will ask you how you know this and they will be able to see the light through you. Thats when you can intriduce your physcial source the UB. Nothing to loose by reading a book except time. One cannot fear the loss of something they are not aware that they possess. It would benefit them to become aware of the treasure that they 'Are' and know that they can know themselves better through reading this book. To someone who struggles with self worth they will defend their worthiness and not understand why they do so, which is an indication that they know they are precious they just need to be reminded. They may not have the language to express what they know deep within but if you tell them something they already know they will feel inspired and validated and may even pick up this book that you yourself have found salvation in.
(Friction) don't push or pull be who you are and express from there and others will align as a result of your alignment.
Allow me to introduce you to one of the most beautiful word in the human dictionary that will put into perspective exactly what I am trying to convey here.
- ENTRAINMENT -
They say it is a phenomenon meaning it cannot be explained. I identify it as another universal law set in place designed to guide us and keep us aware that we are on the right path.
Avoiding friction is the answer. If they are experiencing friction then do not introduce friction that only makes it worse. Instead be the calm in the storm. Be the light in the dark. Be that which you Truly are.
They are already very aware of Hell. Help them become aligned with something they already know but have yet to experience personally.
See, you inspire me because you know of the light that you are and are eager to share it. Just remember its not the book its you, the book just validates what you already know. O:)
Be who you know yourself to be in alignment and 'BE' from there, speak from there, sing from there, the expression will help others to align with what IS.
Like a wall of clocks your hearts will begin to beat in unison and without any effort your hearts will begin to communicate. O:) no need to struggle or to introduce fear to help another experience love and truth, simply be who you truly are in their presence and they rest God will handle.
much love....
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:13 pm +0000
Posts: 9
nebadonomega wrote:
The biggest problem I encounter with the Urantia Book when I present it to others is this question, especially among hard-core Christians. Now, I have to say that when I am talking about the UB with non-believers, I am not always suave. There is so much info... Anyway. When I tell them about how there is no original sin, and how the purpose for this life is to gain character, mixed in with the fact that there is no hell, I get asked, "Why do good then? Why not just do whatever you want if there is no hell and no penalty for your actions?" I try to explain that there is a time penalty involved; that the more you strive to do God's will and follow his ways the closer you become to him and the less you would want to do ungodlike actions. But still, they are hung up on the hell-not-existing-so-I-can-do-whatever-I-want-with-no-consequences thing. How can I present this topic without encountering so much resistance. Is it my inability to orate the UB that is the problem?


It’s a matter of free will choice. The only true value of the free will choice is to give it as a gift over to the universal will of the father of all. The reward of following after the leanings of one’s own debase animalistic free will is NULL past the short and fleeting life in the flesh. Only the reward animalistic evolutionary creature can obtain for themselves is that drop of power and control maintained over a single physical life span.

The rewards of the spirit are far greater! Our father doesn’t punish the self-will dominant beast, but God doesn’t reward that negative behavior. This is punishment enough. This is the anti-reward of non-existence.

The mind of man is physically bound. You’d do well to keep that in mind when dealing with others. It’s a good lesson for all. We are not all the same. Some are higher minded in the spiritual things and others are barley spiritualized in mind.

Such a question is clear cut as these people you’re talking to have not destroyed themselves through suicide or actions so it must be assumed they want to “exist” in some aspect. They are not ready to go into the darkness they assume is physical death.

You do understand that just because there is “no hell” that’s not to say there is no punishment? The punishment is the holding back of the reward. The “punishment” is the being cast into the lake of fire that doesn’t allow for personality existence in other worlds and realms throughout the universal god quest. The “punishment” is the defaulting of the spiritualized birth of the soul personality.

This is the point that could be stressed.

_________________
Move Urantia Ministry Forward! Become a legal minister in the Universal Life Church to legally perform religious events such as marriages as a Urantia Minister. UB published 1955 & ULC established 1959.
http://www.ulchq.com
http://www.ulc.net
Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  Page 1 of 1
  [ 8 posts ] 

Board index » Main » Questions & Answers

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Switch to mobile style
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group