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Hi Ya'akov, I think it would be best if we proceeded one step at a time and I'll need feedback from you to tell me if I am being clear.

Lets start with a simple circle. It has curvature based on the radius. The greater the radius, the lesser the curvature. The Earth has a relatively large radius and the curvature at the surface where we are appears flat, but of course it is not. The horizon is 15 miles or there about.

Now imagine a circle whose radius is 1 billion miles. Thats one big circle and any tiny segment of that circle appears as flat as a line. Now we must let the radius of our circle go to infinity. The circle then becomes as flat as a line, an infinite line. The relationship between the circle and its radius is perpendicular. That is, the radius touches any point on the circle and it is at 90 degrees of angle. That is a right handed relationship. All relationships are such.

The radius is still there and infinite in length. It is perpendicular to the flat line which at one point just prior to reaching infinite radius, had a wee bit of curvature. Infinity straightened everything out. Essential we have a cross like the x y axes from algebra. Sorry to mention that word, but I am sure you remember the dreaded graph. That may be enough for now so let me know if we can proceed further or if you have questions.

Regards, Louis
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Ok. I do remember the dreaded graph, and I do understand. Carry on, please. I'm not sure where you are going with this, but I'll trust you for now. :smile:
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Hi Ya'akov,

So far we have a circle whose radius was taken to infinity and we got a line perpendicular to itself. This is the graph with an x y axes.

We know that this is a one dimensional line construction with relationship. From the same and original center point you can exhaust all extensions and remain as One if the extension are equal and in every possible direct while maintaining mutual orthogonality as a relationship. Now, instead of just a cross that extends into infinitely, we have three orthogonal planes, really just one plane, mutually orthogonal to each other. These planes are infinite, equal, have relationship (therefore they are One) and all share a common origin, their center. They are also one with the center point because they all intersect each other at that point of origin.

This is called by science an unbounded cubic.
Religion can view this as a representation of the Holy Trinity.
Philosophy views this as A Unity.

It is three infinite planes as One, Unity, united by one point of origin. Extending equally in all possible directions that maintains orthogonality, right handedness in its relationship. There can be no other.

In the exact same manner, three concentric circles fulfills this criteria as well. They are circles that are mutually orthogonal, united by one point of origin, and extending equally in all possible directions and still maintaining their mutual relationship. A circle is a representation of infinity just as a line with little arrows on each end represent infinite length. You can go round and round in circles forever and a day and remain in infinity.

Thus, The Father, The Son and The Spirit are equal in divinity, equal in infinity, and maintain a mutually right handed relationship to one another. They have the same origin and equal relationship to the Origin, The I Am. In this manner all three are ONE. :smile:

Regards, Louis
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Hi Louis,
I am trying to follow your explanation but I can't imagine an infinite radius.
How can there be a circle with infinite radius? Whenever there is a circle, its radius is always finite an it ends where it meets the circle. The circle limits the length of the radius.
So if you talk of an infinite radius, you dont have a circle. Please clarify this.
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I see. At least, I see the analogy you are making. What I do not see is how it is particularly relevant to the Trinity as defined either in TUB or in Classical Christian theology. But, I see that another post has just been made to this particular subject, according to my e-mail. Let me flip over to it, and see who said what.

Ysmael, I see what his analogy is. You have to read very closely what he is saying. He is evidently a mathematician of first-rate ability. what I do NOT see is exactly how it relates to TUB Trinity or the Classical Christian Trinity. I mean, I see how he is trying to make sense out of it. And maybe, for a man of his mathematical understanding, it DOES make sense. I'm not accusing him of the logical fallacy of False Analogy. I don't think that's it. I think that he is simply at a level of mathematics that normal people don't comprehend, possibly.
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Hi Ya'akov and Ysmael,


Last edited by loucol on Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:15 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi Ya'akov and Ysmael,

YSMAEL wrote:
Hi Louis,
I am trying to follow your explanation but I can't imagine an infinite radius.
How can there be a circle with infinite radius? Whenever there is a circle, its radius is always finite an it ends where it meets the circle. The circle limits the length of the radius.
So if you talk of an infinite radius, you dont have a circle. Please clarify this.


A circle is a point with radius. The radius defines the circle, not the other way around. A radius is a line. There is but one line and that one line is infinite. It is your finite mind that limits the radius on a paper and you imagine a circle.

The Infinite has no such limits so you must loosen your mind in order to think without limits.

The analogy I provided is a concession to the finite mind as to how to conceive of the Infinite Holy Trinity as the Three united as One.

The finite is a projection of the Infinite, they do not touch. We are created in God's image but God is not His imaginings. A circle is curvature and serves as an intermediary between the Infinite and the finite. The finite is changing curvature as a spiral is in continuous change in curvature through discrete instants.

It is true that infinite radius is not longer curvature, we went from circle to a line. There is but one line, one plane and one point and they are all infinite. In infinity there is but unity. But this unity has relationship as I have explained. In the finite there is multiplicity and diversity but the relationship is not lost in projection, it is faithfully maintained.

All motion is orthogonal.

Ask what you will but please meditate on this a bit. I feel you are close to seeing. This is how my finite mind can make sense of this. I have have my technique other have theirs. I hope that I can translate this so that others can share my thoughts. :smile:

Regards, Louis
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Hi Louis,

My basic geometry tells me that the diameter of a circle is twice the length of its radius. If the radius is infinite, how long then is the diameter?
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Hi Ysmael,

YSMAEL wrote:
My basic geometry tells me that the diameter of a circle is twice the length of its radius. If the radius is infinite, how long then is the diameter?


The short answer is "infinite".

A line is an idea. It is not a streak of pencil lead on a piece of paper. A line has only length. It has no time or space to limit it so it must be infinite.

There can only be one line. The alternative is two lines and if they do not relate they are said to be parallel. There cannot be parallel lines because that would cause there to be distance between them. The concept of distance requires time and space. These are absent when speaking of the idea of a line. A line that is related to itself is a perpendicular line. All relationships are orthogonal (perpendicular). Why not an angle more or less than 90 degrees? Then again that would violate the equality that must exist in the Infinite realm. The Trinity are equal and One. This is only possible in an orthogonal relationship (right handedness; the Son sits at the right hand of the Father).

When formulating an analogy of infinite deity, you cannot stray outside the infinite. The concept of a point, a line, and a plane are zero, one, and two dimensional. As to there relations, that makes it 3 dimensional. The finite comes as the plane motionless first three dimensions are projected into motion by moving space conditioned (bounded) by time. The finite is bounded motion. The infinite is completely absolute and unbounded.

If a radius is infinite, then twice infinity is infinity.

Regards, Louis
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Hi All,

It just came to me that perhaps it is easier to visualize a circle as a plane. When a circle or plane in infinity is infinite in all direction. Please resist thinking of a plane as a rectangle or square. You may immediately think of a circular table vs a square table, but that is our finite mind. Both tables extended to infinity are the same. Infinity has no shape. In infinity all is equal, the same, related and infinite.

I don't want anyone to think that I am equating these geometries with the The Holy Trinity. My sole purpose was to share a symbolism such as the concentric circles given us by TUB and make sense of "Three as One". This I felt I owed Ya'akov since he had questions about it and I had developed this way of conceptualizing what seemed to be a riddle of the ages. God is beyond symbolism but many times it helps our finite minds to grasp at least a glimpse of the infinite. After all, the mind of Jesus of Nazareth is at our disposal (the Cosmic Mind). :smile:

Regards, Louis
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Greetings, Louis:

I understand that you are not reducing God to simple maths. You are attempting to assist the finite mind to understand something that is infinite, and there is no shame in that. The great philosophers and religionists of all ages have tried to do exactly that. If you'll visit my thread "The Neverending Nature of the Bureaucracy" you will observe that our discussion of the nature of God has increased God's innate characteristics from three to five! And this is based on our understanding of TUB. I summarise them here for your benefit.

God has five inherent characteristics that make him God, the absence of any one of which would render him to be not God. God is, to wit:

1. Omnipotent.
2. Omnibenevolent.
3. Omniscient.
4. Omni-existent.
5. Omni-teleological.

If you wish to join the conversation there on the subject, feel free. Or I have started another thread regarding Space outside the Seven Superuniverses and the nature of God wherein we can discuss this as well. Or we can talk about it right here.
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Louis wrote:
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. . . . . . Infinity has no shape.


There you go. Now, that I can comprehend. So if infinity has no shape, then there is no infinite circle and no infinite radius. Thanks, Louis.
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Hi Ysmael,

YSMAEL wrote:
There you go. Now, that I can comprehend. So if infinity has no shape, then there is no infinite circle and no infinite radius. Thanks, Louis.


It is true that infinity has no shape but infinity has potential for infinite shapes. Creation is the projection of the Infinite and creation definitely has shape. And where does all shape (form) come from? It is projection of the Infinite. We are created in God's image but God is not the image. He is not his imaginings.

This that I have presented is merely a thought experiment to illustrate "Three as One".

Look at Plane Geometry as a metaphysical error. It deals with infinity as if were finite. A point, a line, a plane are in the realm of the ideal. They are zero, one and two dimensional, respectively. There is no time or space in them and, therefore, they have no form or shape. We, in our minds have defined these by bounding their infinity. A point is infinite acceleration. A line is infinite velocity. A plane is infinite velocity squared.

Where else have you seen velocity squared ? E = mc^2. This c^2 is the velocity of light squared. Light velocity is finite. Infinite velocity of light squared is the infinite plane of spirit. These planes are Three as One in the unbounded cubic which is three orthogonal infinite planes. Their relationship makes Three, One. This is the Unity of the Trinity.

Regards, Louis
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