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Hello Solis,

From your lasts posts it's beginning to sound like you've found yourself among a group of dunces who've latched onto a fairytale and it's up to you to help us see the light contained in the Bible. I suspect that the majority of the people here know the Bible very well, thank you. This isn't about "your book" versus "our book" -- the Bible stands on its own merits, merits which don't stand up to the kind of scrutiny TUB has received, but merits that prove the Bible to be invaluable despite its shortcomings.

You've said: "Unfortunately, at least in our lifetime, we may never know whether or not this Urantia Book is true and authentic or not, or if it comes from where it says it comes from." Consider the scientists, religionists, philosophers, historians -- educated people in their fields -- who've been students of TUB for 20, 30, 40 years -- do you think they're still struggling with those concerns you've expressed? The question of authenticity and origin are usually solved before one completes a first reading and then the reader is ready to begin to mine the truth contained therein.

This discussion will not be allowed to become a Bible versus UB topic. Feel free to voice your reservations, but stick to a discussion of TUB please.

Larry


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 p1017:10  93:4.8 2.You shall not doubt that faith is the only requirement for eternal salvation.


Last edited by Bonita on Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:43 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Hello RS,

As I've said earlier, my only advise to you is continue reading the UB until you finish it. Don't be fearful for your soul. Have faith in God and yourself. A book like the UB can not bring your soul to "hell". You will even discover what a soul really is and that there is no hell you are so fearful your soul might go to. I'm quite sure, when you finished reading the book, your fear will be gone. The truth will truly set you free.

Ysmael


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Hello again Solis,

I found these in the UB for you and would like to share them.

PAPER 132 - THE SOJOURN AT ROME

3. TRUTH AND FAITH p 1459
Quote:
Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values.

Man tends to crystallize science, formulate philosophy, and dogmatize truth because he is mentally lazy in adjusting to the progressive struggles of living, while he is also terribly afraid of the unknown. Natural man is slow to initiate changes in his habits of thinking and in his techniques of living.

Revealed truth, personally discovered truth, is the supreme delight of the human soul; it is the joint creation of the material mind and the indwelling spirit. The eternal salvation of this truth-discerning and beauty-loving soul is assured by that hunger and thirst for goodness which leads this mortal to develop a singleness of purpose to do the Father's will, to find God and to become like him. There is never conflict between true knowledge and truth. There may be conflict between knowledge and human beliefs, beliefs colored with prejudice, distorted by fear, and dominated by the dread of facing new facts of material discovery or spiritual progress.

But truth can never become man's possession without the exercise of faith. This is true because man's thoughts, wisdom, ethics, and ideals will never rise higher than his faith, his sublime hope. And all such true faith is predicated on profound reflection, sincere self-criticism, and uncompromising moral consciousness. Faith is the inspiration of the spiritized creative imagination.




PAPER 196 - THE FAITH OF JESUS p2087

Quote:
JESUS enjoyed a sublime and wholehearted faith in God. He experienced the ordinary ups and downs of mortal existence, but he never religiously doubted the certainty of God's watchcare and guidance. His faith was the outgrowth of the insight born of the activity of the divine presence, his indwelling Adjuster. His faith was neither traditional nor merely intellectual; it was wholly personal and purely spiritual.

The human Jesus saw God as being holy, just, and great, as well as being true, beautiful, and good. All these attributes of divinity he focused in his mind as the "will of the Father in heaven." Jesus' God was at one and the same time "The Holy One of Israel" and "The living and loving Father in heaven." The concept of God as a Father was not original with Jesus, but he exalted and elevated the idea into a sublime experience by achieving a new revelation of God and by proclaiming that every mortal creature is a child of this Father of love, a son of God.

Jesus did not cling to faith in God as would a struggling soul at war with the universe and at death grips with a hostile and sinful world; he did not resort to faith merely as a consolation in the midst of difficulties or as a comfort in threatened despair; faith was not just an illusory compensation for the unpleasant realities and the sorrows of living. In the very face of all the natural difficulties and the temporal contradictions of mortal existence, he experienced the tranquillity of supreme and unquestioned trust in God and felt the tremendous thrill of living, by faith, in the very presence of the heavenly Father. And this triumphant faith was a living experience of actual spirit attainment. Jesus' great contribution to the values of human experience was not that he revealed so many new ideas about the Father in heaven, but rather that he so magnificently and humanly demonstrated a new and higher type of living faith in God. Never on all the worlds of this universe, in the life of any one mortal, did God ever become such a living reality as in the human experience of Jesus of Nazareth.

In the Master's life on Urantia, this and all other worlds of the local creation discover a new and higher type of religion, religion based on personal spiritual relations with the Universal Father and wholly validated by the supreme authority of genuine personal experience. This living faith of Jesus was more than an intellectual reflection, and it was not a mystic meditation.

Theology may fix, formulate, define, and dogmatize faith, but in the human life of Jesus faith was personal, living, original, spontaneous, and purely spiritual. This faith was not reverence for tradition nor a mere intellectual belief which he held as a sacred creed, but rather a sublime experience and a profound conviction which securely held him. His faith was so real and all-encompassing that it absolutely swept away any spiritual doubts and effectively destroyed every conflicting desire. Nothing was able to tear him away from the spiritual anchorage of this fervent, sublime, and undaunted faith. Even in the face of apparent defeat or in the throes of disappointment and threatening despair, he calmly stood in the divine presence free from fear and fully conscious of spiritual invincibility. Jesus enjoyed the invigorating assurance of the possession of unflinching faith, and in each of life's trying situations he unfailingly exhibited an unquestioning loyalty to the Father's will. And this superb faith was undaunted even by the cruel and crushing threat of an ignominious death.

In a religious genius, strong spiritual faith so many times leads directly to disastrous fanaticism, to exaggeration of the religious ego, but it was not so with Jesus. He was not unfavorably affected in his practical life by his extraordinary faith and spirit attainment because this spiritual exaltation was a wholly unconscious and spontaneous soul expression of his personal experience with God.

The all-consuming and indomitable spiritual faith of Jesus never became fanatical, for it never attempted to run away with his well-balanced intellectual judgments concerning the proportional values of practical and commonplace social, economic, and moral life situations. The Son of Man was a splendidly unified human personality; he was a perfectly endowed divine being; he was also magnificently co-ordinated as a combined human and divine being functioning on earth as a single personality. Always did the Master co-ordinate the faith of the soul with the wisdom-appraisals of seasoned experience. Personal faith, spiritual hope, and moral devotion were always correlated in a matchless religious unity of harmonious association with the keen realization of the reality and sacredness of all human loyalties--personal honor, family love, religious obligation, social duty, and economic necessity.

The faith of Jesus visualized all spirit values as being found in the kingdom of God; therefore he said, "Seek first the kingdom of heaven." Jesus saw in the advanced and ideal fellowship of the kingdom the achievement and fulfillment of the "will of God." The very heart of the prayer which he taught his disciples was, "Your kingdom come; your will be done." Having thus conceived of the kingdom as comprising the will of God, he devoted himself to the cause of its realization with amazing self-forgetfulness and unbounded enthusiasm. But in all his intense mission and throughout his extraordinary life there never appeared the fury of the fanatic nor the superficial frothiness of the religious egotist.

The Master's entire life was consistently conditioned by this living faith, this sublime religious experience. This spiritual attitude wholly dominated his thinking and feeling, his believing and praying, his teaching and preaching. This personal faith of a son in the certainty and security of the guidance and protection of the heavenly Father imparted to his unique life a profound endowment of spiritual reality. And yet, despite this very deep consciousness of close relationship with divinity, this Galilean, God's Galilean, when addressed as Good Teacher, instantly replied, "Why do you call me good?" When we stand confronted by such splendid self-forgetfulness, we begin to understand how the Universal Father found it possible so fully to manifest himself to him and reveal himself through him to the mortals of the realms.



Keep reading the UB, as I am sure you will enjoy it.

Have Faith and God Bless you Solis.

"Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it." p2090

Jim


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I'm not going to advise anybody of anything. I just wanted to point out that the UBook itself says that people are right to take a hard look at the effects of revelation because it will change their lives. Inviting Jesus into our life will change our perspective. Being born of the spirit places us in a new paradigm. And any time our lives are thus changed, from the inside out as it were, if we don't take a hard look at what we are free willingly choosing to do, and the changes we can anticipate, we are in for a lot of shock and awe when the laws of cause and effect start coming into play.

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The UB relates that the churches still exist because there are still people who prefer that style of worship.

And that style is Second Hand

The congregants are not really nudged, pushed, encouraged or otherwise to really REALLY have a personal relationship with God, because, (and the church hierarchy knows this), that if they did, then the people would sooner or later realize that they don't need buildings and preachers and pageantry and stain glass windows to "do God" or "have religion."

The church experience is....."safe and easy." You show up once a week, sing some songs, hear some preaching-teaching which may or may not accurate factually or historically, chunk some money into the pot so the lights can stay on and the preacher can make a living.....and then off you go. Have a nice day and come back next week.


Believing in God and following Jesus is not a thing to make our lives easier, in fact it will bring hard effort and even trouble. But we will learn that God is right there going through these things with us and for us....and one might even learn that there is a whole universe out there that is friendly to us and working right along with us all the while, united behind the Universal Father's glorious, good and beautiful purpose.

"Do not overlook the value of your spiritual heritage, the river of truth running down through the centuries, even to the barren times of a materialistic and secular age. In all of your worthy efforts to rid yourselves of the superstitious creeds of past ages, make sure you hold fast the eternal truth. But be patient! when the present superstition revolt is over, the truths of Jesus' gospel will persist gloriously to illuminate a new and better way.

But paganized and socialized Christianity stands in need of a new contact with the uncompromised teachings of Jesus; it languishes for a lack of a new vision of the Master's life on earth. A new and fuller revelation of the religion OF Jesus is destined to conquer and empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the brink of one its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and spiritual enlightenment.

The teachings of Jesus, even though greatly modified, survived the mystery cults of their birthtime, the ignorance and superstition of the dark ages, and are even now slowly triumphing over materialism, mechanism, and secularism of the twentieth century. And such times of great testing are always times of great revelation." pg 2082


RS I believe you will find that probably 99% or more UB reader - believers are former Christians and know the bible and the church quite well. That includes me.

Be patient and keep reading. If you end up rejecting the UB and remain with Christianity....that is well. No harm is done to you or anyone else.


Peace, Vann

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Larry,

With all due respect, you didn't read my last post or the one before it. Selective hearing, my friend. I clearly stated what my post WASN'T about, which is the Bible. I was originally using it as an example, and in contrast to the UB, since the UB contradicts the Bible on a multitude of issues, and how we validate the UB in comparison to the actual validity of the Bible.

Furthermore, I also stated that the fellow men and women here probably know the Bible significantly more than I do, which would confirm to them what I was saying about a story of the Bible I didn't know as well. Again, a misconception on your part by lack of intelligent reading. Moreso, I ALSO mentioned that only weakness in Faith will someone lash out in defense, rather than offer sound explanation. Jesus offered explanation on everything, and didn't bother using immature name calling (in reference to "dunce") to bid his work.

In addition, I don't remember saying "my book" in comparison to "your book" at any time on this forum. I have been completely and benevolently well mannered, although my critical analysis has offered intelligent reconsideration for what validity means. And if I'm under the correct impression of Mr Sadler, he wouldn't mind a mind like his own challenging his own first hand revelation for the sole sake of Truth in perfection. Because the way I see it is, if the UB is what it says it is, it won't mind being scrutinized for the sake of it's own authenticity. The Bible has taken more than enough for itself, and will continue to do so I'm sure, and the same goes for ANY book that claims such a status.

If you're happy and content with a decision regarding the UB, that's fine for you. For me, however, I see it through to the heart of the matter especially when it involves which way I choose to turn my ship of destiny, per se. As for the the many scientist, philosophers, etc..Anyone can be wrong, and no one is so high and mighty, no matter what their social status, that they couldn't be. Look at all the peoples of old...of anceint Rome? I bet they thought the same thing. So, that mentality is not a sufficient explanation, my friend.

Iris,

I use "we" to show respect, and not to show oppposition even when it defames my true character. From now on, I will be glad to be differentiate my manners from my bolder nature. In reference to this:

YOU clearly are not free yet; YOU are still a victim of your own fear. YOU are still living in fear of having someone else make up your mind for YOU

...you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, that would be the epitome of wrong. My beliefs are of the most far-reaching, tested, and tried beliefs in the world. In fact, my beliefs are the beliefs of the people who laid the foundations of your very psychological cornerstones of Faith. Solomon, Jesus of Nazereth, King Daivd, etc..and God forbid I say Bible. I don't take anyone's word for ANYTHING. I test my Faith, live it, and strive within and because of it everyday. If I come accross anything worthy of answering cosmic questions by revelation, then yes I am going to test it gauged by the sacredness of the Spirit of God, my Couselor.

Furthermore, I dont want you to make up my mind for me, I want you to explain to me your Faith! Is there a problem with that?..If I had a question for a Catholic priest, regardless of what it was, and even if it offered to him insult to his own religion, would he not answer it to the best of his knowledge? I know he would because I was already taken to that place in time. Nor would he use stone-throwing defensive measures to excommunicate me for asking them.

Lastly, I am not my own enemy. I don't have an enemy but the one who counter-produces my very nature by using falsity, trickery, and vice. There's nothing quixotical about that, that's just the way it is.

Vann,

For the sake of your knowledge of what the Church is really used for, pick up a book on communion. The whole purpose behind going to Church isn't to just sit there and listen to a sermon about someone else's attained wisdom over the years, because we all have this ability. The quintessential role of the Church, more than anything else, is to provide consecrated individuals that offer the sacrements of the Blood and Body of Christ, which Jesus clearly states we must do in "rememberence of Me". For what end?..To the end that through the blessed Body and Blood of Christ we will be filled with Spirit, in a much more personal form than how we experience it by reading a book...ANY book, including the Bible.

When receiving communion, you DO what Jesus told you to do. We can sit all day and wonder why we were told do this, or we can do it and experience it as I did, years ago, for the first time. I experienced the Spirit in a multitude of ways. My nature completely changed walking out of Church, all of which is not needed here.

In addition, I don't show up for Church once a week. I hardly go anymore, and I am responsible for this lack of will. I don't have to go once a week, I can go once a month, a year, or whatever. I go when I feel I need to go to reinfluence my soul with the Spirit, therefore strengthening it to defend myself against sin, which actually hurts the soul.

The biggest problem with the view of Church is that people just simply are too busy entertaining themselves with lesser, more mundane things. That's all. A hundred years ago Church was important because not only did people understand the need, they also didn't have the same dependent, earth bound distractions (counter-productive) we do dramatically today. But, think what you will. It seems odd to me that you would want to become an opposition to St Peter, given charge by Jesus, (Creator Son) Himself. But, no matter. Do as you will.

The bottom line here is, if you can't be confident enough to stand correctly by your paradigm, or be corrected by universal Truth if it ever calculated your first impressions wrong, why bother believing anything at all? I am 100% confident that what I believe is true, and if I come to find the UB is true, I will stand by it as I do my accumulated knowledge today.

lux, vita, amor

RS

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The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold.
-- Aristotle (384-322 BC)


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HI Solis, How are you doing? I hope you are enjoying your sojourn here. I like a lot of the stuff you say. I like what you say about the compatibility between science and religion in terms of the biblical scenarios you say have been validated by science. I think we’ve seen many of the same Public TV’s shows regarding those. I like what you mentioned about Randy. I find his stuff very valuable here and Randy a bright being of God in his own right. I’m not sure what your major objections or positions are.

But I can share what they appear to be from my perspective. It looks like your saying that from your POV the Bible is more authentic to you than TUB. It also looks like you maintain some here may have treated you in a less than spiritual fashion. It seems you state that at one time you served the devil or the purposes of the devil BUT you were saved by the Spirit of God. You say you are what God says you are, not man. That would be a Son of God my brother.Right? You say He knows more about us all. I agree.

You write:
Quote:
As I said before, I'm not Christian. I am what God says I am, not man. He knows more about me than I do, as with everyone He has created. Unfortunately, the Bible is very limited to what it allows us to know, or, more importantly, knowledge about things so important to us. But, what it does allow us is irreputable, for the most part. It carries with it blood of our brothers and sisters that came before us. For us to say it's wrong, and allow some other book to come in and do no justice to it, isn't Truth, but an enemy of it.

That’s very moving to me. I see that implicitly that those who have gone before us have laid down there lives either in blood or living them fully so we can follow them in our progressive spiritual, intellectual and physical evolution. In your last sentence the pronoun “it’s” looks to me like you are referring to the Bible. If it is, I agree with you that it is not inherently wrong.

Jesus has taught us there’s not much progression in wasting our energy proving something wrong. Like he says with mosaic law, to paraphrase “I didn’t come to destroy the law BUT to add to it.”. If the “some other book” you refer to is TUB (The Urantia Book) I’d have to disagree that it does “no justice to it” where “it” again refers to the Bible. In my experience it has done to the Bible the same as Jesus did to “The Old Law”, it (TUB) didn’t come to detract from it (the Bible), it came to ADD to it. I would also maintain that TUB contains much spiritual truth within it and does not detract from the Bible but makes the Bible better understood.

You also write:
Quote:
But objective and absolute truth are Gods' alone.

With all due respect, but if this were correct we would all be living in an insane asylum. Think about physics, gravity, numbers...are they all dependent on what God feels like Truth to be for the time being?..Of course not. These are things that God allows us, has given us to live with, and which are Truths that stand independent of us.

It seems by the first part of this statement that you disagree that “God alone is the objective and absolute truth.” Those aren’t my words but I would say, “There is only ONE absolute Truth and that Truth IS GOD and can ONLY be known by God’s self. For only God is infinite and Only God can comprehend His Own infinite expansion.” We can only attempt to prefect our knowing of God’s Truth of the existence of ALL but we will NEVER comprehend it all. IMHO

I don’t believe the first part of your statement contradicts the statement you question. The fallacy in your statement is thinking or implying that “physics, gravity, numbers” are absolute truth or variable in their nature according to God’s whim. They are neither. They are Our best temporal analytical and practical conceptual framework with which we attempt to understand those processes of God’s creation to the best and most functional levels of our most advanced abilities. As we evolve in our understanding of Ours and God’s creation’s physical, intellectual and spiritual natures so will the conceptual frameworks with which we interact with those natures and their processes evolve. IMHO

You continue with:
Quote:
Spiritual Truth is, indeed, much harder to detect, but once unveiled is a gem of Truth nevertheless. Faith helps us, no doubt, to attain the ability to hold something spiritually, as if we were a blind man holding a cane...but the cane exist nonetheless even though that person is blind

Again I believe your perspective touches on the Truth BUT still does not contain the whole Truth, which is God. Spiritual Truth, as it is progressively detected by us, reveals many gems as it is traversed over the eons of eternity. Your analogy of the comparing faith to a blind person holding a cane. And spirituality in it’s entirety as the cane itself, is interesting. Because in the aspect of sensory perception, the blind person will NEVER absolutely know the cane because while he can know it by four of his senses He will never know it by the fifth, SIGHT. It may be white with red on the end, but he will never know that absolutely. He Will always have to take that on Faith.

So will there always be, with unveiling of God’s spirituality and Personality to ourselves, something of God that we will ALWAYS have to take on Faith. IMHO.

God ‘s Peace be with us Solis. May God’s Guidance in the form of His Infinite Spirit always lead us to Life, Light and Love

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amen :)

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The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold.
-- Aristotle (384-322 BC)


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Hello Solis -- You're right, I read in my own interpretation of what you'd posted so I apologize for putting my words in your mouth. But at least by doing so I gave you a good opportunity to expand on your original thoughts and to explain your meanings more fully -- so that's a good thing.
Best wishes,
Larry


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"Belief is always limiting and binding; faith is expanding and releasing. Belief fixates, faith liberates. But living religious faith is more than the association of noble beliefs; it is more than an exalted system of philosophy; it is a living experience concerned with spiritual meanings, divine ideals, and supreme values; it is God-knowing and man-serving. Beliefs may become group possessions, but faith must be personal. Theologic beliefs can be suggested to a group, but faith can rise up only in the heart of the individual religionist." 1114:07



Quote:
Thomas is the great example of a human being who has doubts, faces them, and wins. He had a great mind; he was no carping critic. He was a logical thinker; he was the acid test of Jesus and his fellow apostles. If Jesus and his work had not been genuine, it could not have held a man like Thomas from the start to the finish. He had a keen and sure sense of fact. At the first appearance of fraud or deception Thomas would have forsaken them all. Scientists may not fully understand all about Jesus and his work on earth, but there lived and worked with the Master and his human associates a man whose mind was that of a true scientist— Thomas Didymus— and he believed in Jesus of Nazareth. 139:8.12

Quote:
Jesus told Thomas: "Spiritual assurance is the equivalent of your personal religious experience in the eternal realities of divine truth and is otherwise equal to your intelligent understanding of truth realities plus your spiritual faith and minus your honest doubts." 146:3.4


Quote:
"Belief is always limiting and binding; faith is expanding and releasing. Belief fixates, faith liberates." 1114:07


Quote:
"Truth is relative and expanding; it lives always in the present, achieving new expression in each generation of men--even in each human life." 888:01


Quote:
"Physical facts are fairly uniform, but truth is a living and flexible factor in the philosophy of the universe. Evolving personalities are only partially wise and relatively true in their communications. They can be certain only as far as their personal experience extends. That which apparently may be wholly true in one place may be only relatively true in another segment of creation.
Divine truth, final truth, is uniform and universal, but the story of things spiritual, as it is told by numerous individuals hailing from various spheres, may sometimes vary in details owing to this relativity in the completeness of knowledge and in the repleteness of personal experience as well as in the length and extent of that experience." 42:03-04


Quote:
". . . and whosoever has been born of the spirit has in himself the power to overcome all doubt, and this is the victory that overcomes all uncertainty, even your faith." 1601:3


Quote:
"Spiritual evolution is an experience of the increasing and voluntary choice of goodness attended by an equal and progressive diminution of the possibility of evil. With the attainment of finality of choice for goodness and of completed capacity for truth appreciation, there comes into existence a perfection of beauty and holiness whose righteousness eternally inhibits the possibility of the emergence of even the concept of potential evil. Such a God-knowing soul casts no shadow of doubting evil when functioning on such a high spirit level of divine goodness." 1460:1


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Hello Solis,

I will gladly speak with you again friend. You are making some inaccurate statements and they should be countered, in my opinion.

you- ....since the UB contradicts the Bible on a multitude of issues, and how we validate the UB in comparison to the actual validity of the bible.


Sounds like you're turning it in UB vs. the bible here. Anyway, the appearance of and content of the UB, along with personal internal spiritual confirmation, can, is and will be the only validation. There is no "we" here in the validation process. It will have to be one person at a time. There is only how "Bob" validates it to himself. And how you validate it to yourself and how I validate it for myself.

The actual validity of the bible? What do you mean by that?

you- I also stated that the fellow men and women here probably know the bible significantly more than I do.

I suspect you may be right Solis. And these same persons have rejected the older information in favor of the new, which is invariably better throughout history as civilization progresses.

you- Because the way I see it is, if the UB is what it says it is, it won't mind being scrutinized.....

Ah here you are most correct Solis buddy. There is a passages that boldly states that the truth never fears honest examination. And so it is. But here you also have to see that any scrutiny of the UB of your part is NOT WITH US OR THIS WEBSITE. It is with the book itself or perhaps the authors of all or any of the papers. Scrutinize away.....with them.

What do I mean by that? I mean that this is not a UB vs. (whatever) debate site. This is a "cheerleader" site for the 5th Epocal Revelation. This is a UB based site and you should be able to make that conclusion right away. And we have offered to host a Skeptics Forum for tactful skepticism, but that does have limits as the Administrator has pointed out and there is a clear delineation between skepticism and debates regarding the validity of the revelation.

you- I see it through to the heart of the matter

Well I guess not yet

you- ....especially when it involves which way I choose to turn my ship of destiny per se

I'd say you've already directed your ship Solis, and in the correct direction. You do appear to believe in God, so you are on the right course. The UB states that God has provided for all manner of belief about Him. All that He requires is that we believe IN Him, seek to progress everyday, and seek to learn and do His will. This can be basically accomplished, acceptably and on this planet considering its history and status, through any current living belief system that touches God. Nowhere is anyone saying that Jesusonianism is the only way, or that only reader-believers of The Urantia Book shall be saved. Any sincere and progressive faith is "good enough" to get promoted to the next world (go to heaven). We are not creating a new creed of belief here, the UB boldly rejects creed. The UB presents a new opportunity for believers and seekers to acquire more and better knowledge about God, life and the cosmos around us, along with a much, much fuller recital of the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

you- ...I don't want you to make up you mind for me......explain to me your faith....If I had a question for a Catholic priest....and even if I was asking in an insulting way....he would still answer me...blah blah.....I don't have an enemy but the one who would try to trick me....blah blah...

Dude.... Now you're getting absurd here. Guest in the house buddy. Stop being demanding. We don't owe you nuthin' and we have nuthin' to defend. We ARE sure, and we are here to assist sincere seekers. If you are truly here to seek assistance.....you could be nicer and more respectful about it. Liberty is not license. And Skeptics Corner isn't license either.

you- blah blah blah get a book on communion

No thank you sir. I've possessed the UB for over 25 years and I've made up my mind which is why I'm in a position on this site and on this subject to assist you with your skepticism. Perhaps you can begin to learn to be appreciative of assistance offered you while you are a guest at someone else's house.

you- { You no longer regularly attend church....go when you feel like it to get "recharged" ect...}

I'm sure that is all well and good for you. The UB teaches total emancipation from all acclesiastical forms because none of them are necessary. One of the most important pronouncements that Jesus ever issued was that "The kingdom of heaven is within you." You don't have to go anywhere or do (perform ritual) anything to acquire God's favor or support, or go anywhere ant any time to pray, worship, ect....you can do these things anywhere - anytime, because God is right there inside you.

"Religion is wholly a matter of personal experience"

you- The bottom line here is, if you can't be confident enough to stand correctly by your paradigm, or be corrected by universal truth.......I am 100% confident that what I believe is true.....

Solis, we are confident here, those who represent this site. And that is one reason this site stands today. You keep forgetting that you are a new and skeptical visitor.

You are 100% confident in your beliefs? I don't think so...not by your other statements here. And even now you are looking into new and differing beliefs....The Urantia Book, as opposed to your (previous) association with Christianity and the institutional church....so it's appears plain to me by your own words you are at least somewhat dissatisfied with your past beliefs and are seeking better ones.

Now that I will commend you for brother as it is merely what we all are going through here or have been through in our pasts.


Ask your questions Solis. Despite your sometimes snootiness we will still help you, but your attitude has limits here, be advised. This site has been here going on over 5 years now and I have been here almost since it opened.....we've seen dozens like you come and go. And that is not being unfriendly, it merely represents the facts. This site is what it is and does what it does.

You might would be better off by finish reading the book all the way through at lest once, then decide a continuing course....but that is only an opinion and suggestion.

Ask your questions, but know that well meaning adults who know how to behave properly and participate as comrades within a serious discussion and sharing framework know better than to complain and whine when they don't like the answers they receive from more experienced persons.

Peace to you Solis and learn well,


Vann

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Last edited by Vann on Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:16 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Lucifer rebelled against God’s involvement in his life; God loved him enough as His child to let him try it alone. Others joined Lucifer in his insane proposal to experience Life without the loving guidance of the very Source of all Life and we all struggle with the consequences of that decision. The experiment was found wanting and those wanting more of life – Agondonters - asked God, “How do we do this?” Jesus – Son of God – answered the call and came to live with us in order to more fully reveal the Source of Life and Love – His Father and the Creator of all things and all personalities in the universe. God and Jesus live with us still!

These days, as we await the final adjudication of Lucifer and his fallen associates, all that is required of those wanting to enter into the abundant arena of Light and Life, is to willing enter into a personal relationship with God and His Son. It matters not if you enter into this relationship via what you might read in the Bible, the Koran, the Urantia Book or any other manner or method of entry. When you discover you can’t do it alone - without God and without His Son – you drop the yoke placed on you and all others dwelling on this planet by the Lucifer Manifesto. Thank God for Jesus who lived this human experience with and for us, and who is even now both human and divine and the One who provides the lighted path back to grace, abundance, and Love – the absence of fear, the sense of lack, and the false thought that you are alone.

Enjoy your humanity – you only get to do it once. It is delightfully messy and God and Jesus love the messes you create as you learn and grow via your relationships with them and share YOUR EXPERIENCE of LIGHT AND LIFE with them.

Great simplified compared to the full reading of TUB but nevertheless my contribution for the moment.

All the best, Ray


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You are 100% confident in your beliefs? I don't think so...not by your other statements here. And even now you are looking into new and differing beliefs....The Urantia Book, as opposed to your (previous) association with Christianity and the institutional church....so it's appears plain to me by your own words you are at least somewhat dissatisfied with your past beliefs and are seeking better ones.

First, I would again like to apologize for being foreignly rude. St. James once said "Show me your faith by what you say, and I will show you my faith by what I do. - JAMES 2:14-18..So, in essence, I was only asking you, just in a foreign tone.

As for the above statement, your not understanding with your unbiased mind. Your understanding by defensive retaliation. I'm open to all, yet I'm rooted to my faith. I have one hand open, and the other closed. I can add a stone to a stone, but I can't take away, right? SO it goes that I can venture outward to other faiths, as long as they DON'T take from a stone already planted.

lux, vita, amor

RS

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The least initial deviation from the truth is multiplied later a thousandfold.
-- Aristotle (384-322 BC)


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what-ever dude

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Love is the desire to do good to others Image pg 648

http://z7.invisionfree.com/URANTIAFORUMS/index.php


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