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46:7.7 Perhaps I can best suggest to Urantia minds something of the nature of these beautiful and serviceable creatures by saying that they embrace the combined traits of a faithful horse and an affectionate dog and manifest an intelligence exceeding that of the highest type of chimpanzee. And they are very beautiful, as judged by the physical standards of Urantia. They are most appreciative of the attentions shown them by the material and semimaterial sojourners on these architectural worlds. They have a vision which permits them to recognize - in addition to material beings - the morontia creations, the lower angelic orders, midway creatures, and some of the lower orders of spirit personalities. They do not comprehend worship of the Infinite, nor do they grasp the import of the Eternal, but they do, through affection for their masters, join in the outward spiritual devotions of their realms.

This quotation affirms that as morontial beings, you will have experience with creature life on the mansion worlds. It seems that in the universe, part of God's Plan is to include man, or the souls of men, with an environment filled rich with creature life.

In the Bible, especially the book of Revelation, Jesus or Christ is called the Lamb, because this is a touching creature (in my opinoin) that displayed the highest form of obedience out of any creature of Urantia. If Jesus did say, "like or as a child, you shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven," then what does that say about the ascencion of man, as the chief stewards of creature life on Urantia? What does this quotation from the Urantia Book Paper 46 say about man's relationship, and even God's or the Holy Spirit's relationship to all creature life.

These beings, the spornagia, remind me of a creature that is replete in all aspects of the first five levels of the adjutant mind ministry; we may have ideas but really nothing closely similar on Urantia, as far as harmonious coordination of adjutant mind ministry, but we can know as zookeepers, as animal husbandmen, that God loves every animal on Urantia, through sharing or partaking of those aspects of God's (the Divine Minister's) impersonal ministry to every mortal creature. As humans, we experience this ministry in the same manner as animals, I believe. If all the creatures on your land are happy and thriving, that bodes well for your reception of the first five spirits. What about how these initial spirits of the adjutant mind ministry are essential towards prospering the spirit of worship.

How do you think you will experience creature life as on Edentia? Do you think that your own experience of worship or wisdom will be important if you share any experience with the spornagia? Do you think that spornagia will actually be able to see morontial beings, if not then what is the potential lessons you would hope to learn from them, or in this life from your experiences as a pet-owner? Do you think that there is an empathetic link between man and other animals and creatures? What do you think is the role that morontial beings play towards the spornagia? How does the interaction between humans and animals evidence aspects of the lower adjutant mind ministry, that may be co-incorporable between humans and creatures?

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Hmmmm.....

To begin with, neither lambs nor sheep are at all "obedient" but are simple minded and prone to wander off and become lost or eaten - not even close to the most obedient or friendly or loyal but rather stupid and undependably unpredictable. Glad you like them though.

Jesus is only called the lamb in the Bible and in Christian songs due to its role as a blood sacrifice by the Jews. The UB does not call or describe The Master Son of Nabadon a lamb. Not hardly. I would not dare compare Michael to any mere and lowly creature of the animal kingdom...he who is the creator of that kingdom and our own...especially not a lamb or sheep. Jesus did call himself the Good Shepherd...but not sheep.

See 85:3.4

As to Edentia:

43:6.4 (492.4) The architectural worlds enjoy ten forms of life of the material order. On Urantia there is plant and animal life, but on such a world as Edentia there are ten divisions of the material orders of life. Were you to view these ten divisions of Edentia life, you would quickly classify the first three as vegetable and the last three as animal, but you would be utterly unable to comprehend the nature of the intervening four groups of prolific and fascinating forms of life.

43:6.5 (492.5) Even the distinctively animal life is very different from that of the evolutionary worlds, so different that it is quite impossible to portray to mortal minds the unique character and affectionate nature of these nonspeaking creatures. There are thousands upon thousands of living creatures which your imagination could not possibly picture. The whole animal creation is of an entirely different order from the gross animal species of the evolutionary planets. But all this animal life is most intelligent and exquisitely serviceable, and all the various species are surprisingly gentle and touchingly companionable. There are no carnivorous creatures on such architectural worlds; there is nothing in all Edentia to make any living being afraid.

Me here: Animals are not people or ascenders or connected to God by the circuit of love or personality and even those of Edentia are not connected to the higher adjutants if the adjutants and life carriers are even involved. We will not access God or the Spirit through these animals and neither will they connect to God through us. And what is the definition of "co-incorporable"? How we connect to the Spirit and how we progress is well described and those do not depend upon animals here or there or anywhere on our journey and adventure to Paradise. Animal and plant and other life on morontial spheres will likewise be morontial in material so yes....all morontial creatures will "see" the other forms.

As for myself....I am going to be a Fandor cowboy and pilot....firm in the saddle through the barrel rolls and dives and grand swoops and loops while my joyful bird of transport and I have great fun together and learn to depend upon one another in the partnership of exhilaration!!

Yippie Yi Yay!!! Hang onto your hats!!

8)

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Right, except I think that the metaphor of obedience applies with the Lambs, seeing that such herds came out of Egypt, reflecting a long narrative from the Hebrew people as those who hearkened the call of the Lord, or the voice of God, how you want to call this.
76:2.7 The death of Abel became known to his parents when his dogs brought the flocks home without their master. To Adam and Eve, Cain was fast becoming the grim reminder of their folly, and they encouraged him in his decision to leave the garden.
Abel was the master of both flocks and dogs. That such creatures could follow at least as much as was taught, implies to me the intelligence of instructions in living creatures. How do you consider, that Jesus was a Master of men because like Abel, he had first become a master of all living creatures upon Urantia.

But yea, Jesus selected symbolically riding into Jerusalem on a white mule-colt, the last week of his life the week of Passover 30 A.D.. A Horse and a Donkey? But he chose a creature largely assumed to be infertile? Could the white mare in the Urantia Book symbolise Mary, or Eve, the Adamic Gift, and the donkey like Joseph, the salt of the earth? I know that you say that umgulates are unintelligent, but I have a hard time "avoiding perceptual trists of kinship" with such unassuming creatures? Jesus is not as assuming as the Pharisees, but he is like a mortal creature?

There is a type of kinship because I share in the life of the planet, and the emotions with other mammalian creatures. Maybe the colt could not know Jesus personally, but Jesus knew that he had claim to that creature somehow. What does this say about the way that Christ Michael looks after the needs of the human individual? Is Jesus just as nonassuming and trusting as the colt?

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Last edited by SEla_Kelly on Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:50 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Right, except I think that the metaphor of obedience applies with the Lambs, seeing that such herds came out of Egypt, reflecting a long narrative from the Hebrew people as those who hearkened the call of the Lord, or the voice of God, how you want to call this.

But yea, Jesus selected symbolically riding into Jerusalem on a white mule-colt, the last week of his life the week of Passover 30 A.D.. A Horse and a Donkey? But he chose a creature largely assumed to be infertile? Could the white mare in the Urantia Book symbolise Mary, or Eve, the Adamic Gift, and the donkey like Joseph, the salt of the earth? I know that you say that umgulates are unintelligent, but I have a hard time "avoiding perceptual trists of kinship" with such unassuming creatures? Jesus is not as assuming as the Pharisees, but he is like a mortal creature?

There is a type of kinship because I share in the life of the planet, and the emotions with other mammalian creatures. Maybe the colt could not know Jesus personally, but Jesus knew that he had claim to that creature somehow. What does this say about the way that Christ Michael looks after the needs of the human individual? Is Jesus just as nonassuming and trusting as the colt?


It is a pity you keep insisting to explain things you do not know about or understand. The UB especially. But so many other topics as well.

Jesus did not ride into Jerusalem on a mule Stephen. And mules are not "assumed" to be infertile, they are indeed infertile! The UB does not say the donkey was a mare OR white so your creation of metaphor and symbolisms are but your own inventions for your own purposes and, once again, have absolutely nothing to do with the Revelation even if the donkey were female (likely) and white in color!

NO, no animals in the UB represent the parents of Jesus...or Jesus. And Jesus borrowed the donkey and made no claim. It was a specific symbolic choice Jesus made to demonstrate his entry was one of peace and friendship. And now you compare Jesus to the ass? Oh dear.

172:3.5 (1881.3) A warrior king always entered a city riding upon a horse; a king on a mission of peace and friendship always entered riding upon an ass. Jesus would not enter Jerusalem as a man on horseback, but he was willing to enter peacefully and with good will as the Son of Man on a donkey.

I said nothing at all about umgulates (hoofed animals); I said sheep are stupid and so they are. Much more stupid than goats or horses or pigs and even cows which are none too bright either, but I did not broadly insult all hoofed animals as my comments were quite specific and for good reason and based on fact and experience. This has actually been studied but any farm boy knows the relative intelligence of farm animals. You have trysts of kinship with lambs?? Or sheep? Hmmmm……. Far too many jokes come to mind Stephen.

So now you're calling the Hebrew slaves the metaphorical lambs??? Quite the insult. Actually, of course, the Hebrews invented the story of Passover to give fable and myth qualities to their departure from Egypt. Passover was the blood of a lamb on the door or over the door...pure myth. But the Hebrews fled while sheep and lambs wander soon become lost. The Hebrews did not wander about as in the myth either....they were nomads with more goats than sheep that looked for water and grass and finally wandered to a well established place called Salem...eventually. The narrative you love so much is pure mythology Stephen.

Oh what a jambalaya of fiction and invention you throw together which truly demonstrates how little you know about your topic of choice and the ingredients you have selected. Please stop.....

:roll:

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Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:07 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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No I didn't say that the Hebrews were or are slaves. I said divine obedience of the Hebrew People.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
No I didn't say that the Hebrews were or are slaves. I said divine obedience of the Hebrew People.


The Hebrews were NOT obedient, divinely or otherwise....but they were slaves.

So....just ignore all the falsehoods invented and posted so far?.

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This thread is hilarious! I am really enjoying Bradly's colorful and vivid responses.

"I am going to be a Fandor cowboy and pilot....firm in the saddle through the barrel rolls and dives and grand swoops and loops while my joyful bird of transport and I have great fun together and learn to depend upon one another in the partnership of exhilaration!! "

I will enjoy the images provided by this phrase for the rest of the day today! :biggrin: <applause!>

Also, "jambalaya". Now I'm hungry!
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Upon further reflection and consideration of the topic title, Stephen's initial post here leaves me wondering about the purpose and the value of animals and our interactions with them in the morontial levels of reality.

On material, evolutionary worlds their purpose is obvious as the bio/evolutionary development of traits and characteristics of future humans in their form and function. What else I wonder? And what in the experiences to come.

Thanks Stephen. Your posted quote on spornagia led me to the Paper on Edentia. Such animal life must deliver some benefits to its residents and visitors.

Your sheep issues and claims need additional thinking on your part still I believe...but the topic is interesting nonetheless.

:wink:

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