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 Post subject: Of Meaning and Value
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“We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way; . . .” Isaiah 53.6

The Urantia Book, 100:3.3, In the contemplation of values you must distinguish between that which is value and that which has value. You must recognize the relation between pleasurable activities and their meaningful integration and enhanced realization on progressively higher and higher levels of human experience.

This essay is an explanation of these two references.

Since the beginning of time mankind has been on a quest. Simply, this quest has been the journey to discover the meaning of life. This quest has been predominantly defined and expressed through philosophers and religious institutions. However, the real purpose of this quest has been elusive to the common man, consciously and personally.

Consequently, knowingly or unknowingly, we have delegated the control of the quest to institutions. These organizations claim to adequately fill this place we find so elusive. The result is, we have obediently pursued our “faiths” by primarily two largely dysfunctional methods. First, we have quietly accepted a prevailing institutionally supplied view, one we each ascribe to, whatever that happens to be at the time. These “prepackaged” views require little deep thinking by us; at least no more deeply than we are personally comfortable. Second, we have established a practice of gathering to worship an often-ill-defined concept of a deity that we presume adequately facilitates our static view enabling this disregard of personal deep seeking. Consequently, these efforts to achieve the goal set forth in the quest stop short of spiritual fulfillment in individuals, personally.

The result is that many, if not most people, are left in want, aren’t even conscious of this want, and end up falling by the wayside. This is because instead of personally discovering an ultimate answer for life within ourselves, we humanize, intellectualize, and externalize our religious practice, which enables us to morph ourselves from seeking the true purpose of living into a whole different adventure. This new adventure, while using a similar vocabulary, is as different from true spiritual experience as the night is from the day. This is because, while it seeks to fill the void within us, it cannot! The new adventure becomes a quest to discover a life of meaning. A life of meaning, for us. The focus, the direction of our effort is self-seeking, self-awareness, self-fulfillment as opposed to God seeking, God awareness, spirit fulfillment. By this, we search for a life of meaning, instead of allowing ourselves the realization of the meaning of life. The difference is black and white. The results are nearly opposite of each other and are the basis of the very definitions of abject failure or eternal success in life, personally and individually, and even corporately as a world of human societies. The truth is this; living a life of meaning is not the meaning of life!

We “all like sheep” are guilty of this practice of the pursuit of a life of meaning. While it is natural for us to pursue such meaning, such a life effort leads to failure. This failure may be masked by great success on material levels and even some significant degree of happiness as we proceed. But failure to discover the unlimited joy of discovering God's value, the ultimate driver of life, is failure in the most profound sense. While it is a deep desire within each of us that drives us, the direction we seek betrays our intent. Knowing that we do desire this naturally does not excuse our complacency at addressing the ever present and even greater task at hand. Until we discover the value of life as revealed by the creator, we cannot truly appreciate any meaning. So, the question becomes this. Are we truly unaware of our predicament, or are we aware but unwilling to face ourselves in total honesty and candidly recognize our options? In other words, are we able to refocus our lives, rebuild our vision and readjust our sense of reality to discover the value of the difference? For it is in the value of this discovery of reality that we find the strength of character sufficient to manage the adjustment of our paths. We all have access to this ability. We don’t all use it.

How many ways do we pursue the practice of our “faith” while we secretly do everything we can do to avoid truly facing God? We say, I want to do my own thing; I want to be my own man (woman); I want to be all I can be; I am just trying to get what is mine, I deserve it; everybody else is doing it; it is my turn; I want to be the best I can be. These kinds of statements reveal a humanity seeking self-oriented expressions of living with the hope that fulfillment will be realized. It won’t! The great challenge, the victory of life, is discovered elsewhere.

The great challenge of living is not found in the achievement of living up to and filling our personal desires to mean something while here on earth. The great challenge of living is much more real and valuable than that. The great challenge of living, the real purpose of life here on this little planet is that we engage ourselves in the growth of our soul. That is why we are here. If not for that reason, life would have no value. Without consciousness of our true value to creation, even a life full of meaning is meaningless.

The process of growth in human consciousness of spiritual reality is not mysterious or magical. Neither is it hypothetical or merely theoretical. It is the most real practice we can do. But, of course, we cannot do it, can we? If we could, we would have been doing it all along and we wouldn’t need prophets, seers, and revelations to help keep us on track. So, why don’t we do the necessary work of growing souls? Is it too hard for us? Are we confused? Have we been misled? Is it something else that keeps us from voluntarily taking this journey? Or could it be that what we are doing is really all we believe is expected of us, as some here suggest? In other words, is what we have in our world the best we could expect for this age of our existence?

Questions like these are rhetorical and can’t be adequately addressed. WHY we are where we are in our current state of social development has a single answer. We are where we are because we have allowed ourselves the privilege of physical and intellectual development without equally devoting ourselves to spiritual realization and devotion, to growing our souls. We take everything we can from life but give back almost nothing. In so doing, we take no responsibility for the results. Subsequently, all the errors of life on planet earth are somebody else’s fault. And, since they are somebody else's fault, let them fix things.

That is the great lie! That is the great diversion! Nobody is a nobody! We are each somebody. I am the only somebody who can deal with these issues. I am responsible! The state of my world is my fault. If not that, then nobody is, and if I am still here then there is no such thing as nobody! If I am still here then somebody is here to do the work of growing a soul, of becoming spirit led instead of ego driven (we can't be both), of deliberately uncoupling from material level meanings and thinking and pursuing consciousness of true spirit value as the primary purpose of life. This is the message Jesus reveals. Seek God first, always. Seek God until we hear, “This is my beloved son.” Then we can seek the meaning of life; then we will truly know the value.

While crossing over from material mindedness to soul consciousness is a lifelong endeavor, not a ‘once and done’ event, the regular and repeated committing of one’s life to the pursuit of this journey is paramount from the onset. It is facilitated by willingly conquering life’s trials at all levels from the most basic physical to the highest spiritual. We must learn to practice this process while cleaning out the latrines of our personal lives as well as learning to effectively prepare and worship at our altars. The body may be our temple, but the temple must be cleaned, maintained, and continuously remodeled. The engine of this effort, this growth, is a practice of our will. It is by supreme effort of our will that we choose to discover and live the will of God. Only God knows the full and complete blueprint of each individual's design, so only God can be fully trusted to completely direct the work to be done. One of God’s little idiosyncrasies is his thoroughness. He leaves no stone unturned. But while he is thorough and methodically deliberate, he is divinely patient with us, he never pushes. This means we always, and only, move along at the pace we willfully demand of ourselves.

But, while the work can tend to seem mundane at times, and the product of all this effort is the achievement of something we have no clear idea of, we must learn to trust through action. The point at which the effort is begun, the point Jesus referred to as “born again”, often comes as a result of intense emotion and no small personal trial. This is where we decide to embark. But the truly strenuous work is yet to come. As the reality of God becomes more and more a living consciousness within an individual's mind and soul, the value of this reality becomes more apparent and more desired. It also becomes more challenging to acquire. The farther we go, the more personally involving becomes the pursuit. The farther we go the greater the effort required to force ourselves to comply with our stated choices. Simply put, to see the view of life God has for each of us, we must personally climb our stairs of consciousness to that inner viewpoint of righteousness provided by the indwelling spirit guide. There are no elevators. Each step is a lesson for us placed by God himself for our benefit. Each step requires us to live up to the previous ones. The order in which the stair lessons come to us could be called predestination. Each person is unique. Each person must climb his or her own stairs. Each path is unique.

But while every step must be managed, every step is a potential trap. The tendency to make a platform from a single step or group of steps is a trap for our egos and does great harm to our message. The effort to express our status, our level of achievement becomes a distraction to our ascent soul ward.

Does it help to share this journey with others? Immensely! Is sharing the depths of the trials of stair climbing a necessary part of the endeavor? It is. After all, part of our journey is to assist others in theirs. My personal growth accomplishments are the product of God's guidance, the fruit of my spiritual growth. Sharing my fruit with others is a commandment. While this labor of love is not immune to the acceptance or rejection from others, the focus of the drive must remain focused on service to the Father’s plan for my brothers and sisters. If my state of growth is not allowed to proceed because it interferes with someone’s own personal fear or private issue, my assistance to others will be self-limited by them. Fear of being transformed by God is what drives this, we are taught. Failure to supply the effort to climb the stairs of my life slows my growth and confuses others. This is one reason why sharing our souls openly and transparently is of such value.

Once this open sharing of personal triumph becomes the practice, the world in which we live begins a transformation. Gradually, a life of value becomes more important than a life of private personal meaning. Value provides enlightenment, light. It reveals. Life on the planet is opened and the value we collectively experience of God is expressed as true worship. However, a life lived only for the pursuit of personal meaning is soul darkening. Such a life gradually life becomes fear ridden, competitive, and angry. The pursuit of meaning only, conceals truth. A life lived for the realization of value reveals truth and frees the individual to explore all the potentials of life openly.

Value is perceptibly infinite, limited only by will. Meaning is limited by personal experience, even when evaluated by interaction with spirit insight.

Eternal life is the endless pursuit of infinite value. In order to forever relate value to meaning we must be completely involved in the full realization of both! But we must seek first the true value of God so our meanings will be real and fruit of our spirit’s efforts will provide enlightenment for others.

That value is revealed in us through the living spirit of truth, the spirit of Michael of Nebadon, Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, the Son of man. We can study the meanings revealed in the Urantia Book all we want but we must not overlook the source of its value.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: Of Meaning and Value
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The Urantia Papers teach us that there is no value prior to or without meaning first. The pursuit of understanding universe reality is the inevitable and natural endeavor of personality and mind and the selfhood of creature existence. Certainly are some blessed by more curiosity and the love of discovery than others.

Soul building likewise is a natural and automatic reflex by the self's response to the Deity connections each of us is endowed with, including cosmic mind, the Holy Spirit, the Adjutants, the Son's Spirit of Truth, and the Adjusters. This religious growth is an unconscious process by the personal response we have to the urges and yearning and thirst provided BY the Deity Connections within. The fruits of that connection and response include hope, ideals, morality, affection, duty, loyalty, generosity, kindness, forgiveness, love, sacrifice, and service to others.

Our world is blessed by billions of souls who reflect this great reality and obvious victory of the spirit and human natures on Urantia. The quest of truth and eternal adventure is alive and well all around us all every day and everywhere...if we can see it!!

We all want to be happy and live forever. This is because of our Divine Connection. We are each and all so connected.

Thanks for the reminder!!

8)

We are all God's beloved children and Jesus forsakes none, no matter how lost or the dangers we face.

And Jesus said:

169:1.3 (1851.1) “You have been taught that divine acceptance comes after your repentance and as a result of all your works of sacrifice and penitence, but I assure you that the Father accepts you even before you have repented and sends the Son and his associates to find you and bring you, with rejoicing, back to the fold, the kingdom of sonship and spiritual progress. You are all like sheep which have gone astray, and I have come to seek and to save those who are lost."

169:1.15 (1853.2) Jesus was very partial to telling these three stories at the same time. He presented the story of the lost sheep to show that, when men unintentionally stray away from the path of life, the Father is mindful of such lost ones and goes out, with his Sons, the true shepherds of the flock, to seek the lost sheep. He then would recite the story of the coin lost in the house to illustrate how thorough is the divine searching for all who are confused, confounded, or otherwise spiritually blinded by the material cares and accumulations of life. And then he would launch forth into the telling of this parable of the lost son, the reception of the returning prodigal, to show how complete is the restoration of the lost son into his Father’s house and heart.

169:1.16 (1853.3) Many, many times during his years of teaching, Jesus told and retold this story of the prodigal son. This parable and the story of the good Samaritan were his favorite means of teaching the love of the Father and the neighborliness of man.

8)

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"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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According to the Papers, a life with meaning is a life of value...great value are discovered only through the realization of meanings. They are not separated and both are necessary for religious experience and religious progress and experiential wisdom too! Indeed, no value may be discovered except by our quest for meaning (or understanding).

Such a quest is not self centered but is, rather, other-centered. Life itself is our relationship to universe reality and with other personalities. It is a subjective experience within an objective reality. The purpose of our life is to harmonize and integrate and unify physical, intellectual, and spirit realities into a singular and personal and experiential expression of that objective reality.

3. The Supremacy of Religion

196:3.1 (2093.6) Personal, spiritual religious experience is an efficient solvent for most mortal difficulties; it is an effective sorter, evaluator, and adjuster of all human problems. Religion does not remove or destroy human troubles, but it does dissolve, absorb, illuminate, and transcend them. True religion unifies the personality for effective adjustment to all mortal requirements. Religious faith—the positive leading of the indwelling divine presence—unfailingly enables the God-knowing man to bridge that gulf existing between the intellectual logic which recognizes the Universal First Cause as It and those positive affirmations of the soul which aver this First Cause is He, the heavenly Father of Jesus’ gospel, the personal God of human salvation.

196:3.2 (2094.1) There are just three elements in universal reality: fact, idea, and relation. The religious consciousness identifies these realities as science, philosophy, and truth. Philosophy would be inclined to view these activities as reason, wisdom, and faith—physical reality, intellectual reality, and spiritual reality. We are in the habit of designating these realities as thing, meaning, and value.

196:3.3 (2094.2) The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self-completion—self-entirety, self-totality. The experiencing of total reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-knowing experience.

196:3.4 (2094.3) The full summation of human life is the knowledge that man is educated by fact, ennobled by wisdom, and saved—justified—by religious faith.

196:3.5 (2094.4) Physical certainty consists in the logic of science; moral certainty, in the wisdom of philosophy; spiritual certainty, in the truth of genuine religious experience.

196:3.6 (2094.5) The mind of man can attain high levels of spiritual insight and corresponding spheres of divinity of values because it is not wholly material. There is a spirit nucleus in the mind of man—the Adjuster of the divine presence. There are three separate evidences of this spirit indwelling of the human mind:

196:3.7 (2094.6) 1. Humanitarian fellowship—love. The purely animal mind may be gregarious for self-protection, but only the spirit-indwelt intellect is unselfishly altruistic and unconditionally loving.

196:3.8 (2094.7) 2. Interpretation of the universe—wisdom. Only the spirit-indwelt mind can comprehend that the universe is friendly to the individual.

196:3.9 (2094.8) 3. Spiritual evaluation of life—worship. Only the spirit-indwelt man can realize the divine presence and seek to attain a fuller experience in and with this foretaste of divinity.

196:3.10 (2094.9) The human mind does not create real values; human experience does not yield universe insight. Concerning insight, the recognition of moral values and the discernment of spiritual meanings, all that the human mind can do is to discover, recognize, interpret, and choose.

196:3.11 (2094.10) The moral values of the universe become intellectual possessions by the exercise of the three basic judgments, or choices, of the mortal mind:

196:3.12 (2094.11) 1. Self-judgment—moral choice.

196:3.13 (2094.12) 2. Social-judgment—ethical choice.

196:3.14 (2094.13) 3. God-judgment—religious choice.

196:3.15 (2094.14) Thus it appears that all human progress is effected by a technique of conjoint revelational evolution.

196:3.16 (2094.15) Unless a divine lover lived in man, he could not unselfishly and spiritually love. Unless an interpreter lived in the mind, man could not truly realize the unity of the universe. Unless an evaluator dwelt with man, he could not possibly appraise moral values and recognize spiritual meanings. And this lover hails from the very source of infinite love; this interpreter is a part of Universal Unity; this evaluator is the child of the Center and Source of all absolute values of divine and eternal reality.

Paper 196 offers much to consider on this so important topic!

8)

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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So...."sharing" our "fruit" is not a commandment. Rather, it is an irresistible and inevitable expression of our religious experience. Indeed, children and barbarians demonstrate the sharing and caring of the very human expressions of the Divine Connection. In fact, the very birth of soul is proof and validation of this connection AND our personal response to that connection!!

Kindness, generosity, affection, friendship, loyalty, duty, forgiveness, love,sacrifice, service, morality, and ethics are all proof positive of our humanity, the Divine Connection, and personal religious experience and growth. None of these are possible, not one of them (!), is possible without Spirit connection and personal response to the Spirit within.

Meaning is never, and can never be, meaningless. Meaning, by definition, has and is meaning. There is no value without meaning...meaning is the very doorway to value. Or so the UB teaches us.

And of course, the source of fact and meaning is the same source of all value...and all truth...and all reality. The First Source. That which is real has meaning. The understanding of meaning delivers value. There can be no value without meaning. The understanding of meaning is the value of reality and the very essence of BEING.

All value is discovered only by our quest for meaning, as we perceive and learn to understand universe reality. Life has meaning. Universe reality has meaning. The value of reality is found in that personal quest for meaning, or the understanding of reality.

Or so I understand the UB to teach.

8)

I truly admire all my fellow religionists who find meaning and value in the rites, traditions, ceremonies, and celebrations of all faiths, and who find comfort and inspiration and guidance along the path to Paradise. So many billions of God's faith children to admire and emulate on their personal quest to live lives of meaning!!! What value to behold and experience others' expressions of their Divine Connection!!

So...every single act of human kindness and hope and idealism is an expression of the Divine Connection and human religious experience. It is our sincerity and intentions and motivation that are measured by God assess our value as the children of time.

Any and every expression of faith has meaning and value...eternal meaning and eternal value! Every such experience and expression of faith is a treasure to embrace and to celebrate and to give joyful recognition of such meaningful value!

Wow!!! :biggrin:

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Thanks Jim for steering us to Paper 100!!

100:3.4 (1097.1) Meaning is something which experience adds to value; it is the appreciative consciousness of values....

Me here: Meaning then is the very consciousness of or understanding of values...

100:3.6 (1097.3) The association of actuals and potentials equals growth, the experiential realization of values. But growth is not mere progress. Progress is always meaningful, but it is relatively valueless without growth. The supreme value of human life consists in growth of values, progress in meanings, and realization of the cosmic interrelatedness of both of these experiences. And such an experience is the equivalent of God-consciousness. Such a mortal, while not supernatural, is truly becoming superhuman; an immortal soul is evolving.

8)

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Thanks Jim for your well thought out and written exposé. It is a struggle and does require determined motivation and effort to "keep one's mind stayed on God" in order to make maximum spiritual advance during the short life in the flesh ...... but more importantly to us ...... on THIS world.
I read curiously as you didn't even mention the issues which causes us lowly mortals the biggest spiritual problem in the first place on this world - which is our Agondonter status.
Us homies with our "out of sight out of mind" proclivity. Ever since the removal of the visible Dalamatia regime concurrent with the Caligastia disaffection in the Lucifer Rebellion, and further retarded by the later Adamic Default .... we enjoy no visible celestial presence on our world at all ..... relegating us to Agondonter status for those of us who learn about or come to realize such things. Out of sight out of mind indeed.
TUB mentions how shocked we would be if we were to be suddenly transported to a normal world of the same approximate age. We would think we were dropped off in a paradise somewhere.
Things are a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT on normal worlds.


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Angels Online wrote:
Thanks Jim for your well thought out and written exposé. It is a struggle and does require determined motivation and effort to "keep one's mind stayed on God" in order to make maximum spiritual advance during the short life in the flesh ...... but more importantly to us ...... on THIS world.
I read curiously as you didn't even mention the issues which causes us lowly mortals the biggest spiritual problem in the first place on this world - which is our Agondonter status.
Us homies with our "out of sight out of mind" proclivity. Ever since the removal of the visible Dalamatia regime concurrent with the Caligastia disaffection in the Lucifer Rebellion, and further retarded by the later Adamic Default .... we enjoy no visible celestial presence on our world at all ..... relegating us to Agondonter status for those of us who learn about or come to realize such things. Out of sight out of mind indeed.
TUB mentions how shocked we would be if we were to be suddenly transported to a normal world of the same approximate age. We would think we were dropped off in a paradise somewhere.
Things are a WHOLE LOT DIFFERENT on normal worlds.


Indeed!! :!: :idea:

And yet...despite that reality, the UB teaches us that our world has an amazing and inspiring trajectory of planetary progress and a certain destiny that is being managed so capably by a very caring and experienced leadership!!! We are not some orphaned stragglers in the evolutionary progression of time...even on this world of Agondonters.

It is unfortunate that any students (alleged or real) might be blind to such fact and truth. But it is even more puzzling that any true student might believe or preach that the 7 billion souls of Urantia do not exist or grow or respond to our Spirit Connections and human nature ( and, we are taught, human nature is faith response to the Spirit within). The world around us - near at hand and far away - gives clear and extraordinary examples of love, loyalty, duty, morality, generosity, kindness, forgiveness, and service to others.

196:3.20 (2095.4) Every time man makes a reflective moral choice, he immediately experiences a new divine invasion of his soul. Moral choosing constitutes religion as the motive of inner response to outer conditions. But such a real religion is not a purely subjective experience. It signifies the whole of the subjectivity of the individual engaged in a meaningful and intelligent response to total objectivity—the universe and its Maker.

The UB also teaches us that our response to the Spirit Connections begins as children and that religious experience and soul growth is quite unconscious and requires no conversion experience to effectively gain spiritization during this brief time on the planet of birth/origin.

It seems so contrary to the teachings on universe reality we share here to feel or express such disappointment in the religious experience of others or to pronounce judgment on the meaning or value of their souls and spiritual status. I, for one, have my own spiritization and growth to attend to and mind and measure, and am astounded every day by the example of others as I see them overcome suffering and uncertainty and demonstrate that love and those attending fruits of the Spirit despite all circumstances and obstacles!!

I witness Agondonters all around me. So inspiring to behold.

So much " meaning and value" to see in our world and as described in the Revelation. The acceleration of planetary progress is truly breathtaking to those not blinded by disappointment and anxiety.

The UB is a celebration of universe reality. It is an affirmation and assurance of God's friendly universe!!

Soul trust and assurance is the message of the UB... that is the meaning and the value of the Papers.

8)

Let us beware "the persuasive delusions of unsound philosophy."

111:2.3 (1218.1) The human personality is identified with mind and spirit held together in functional relationship by life in a material body. This functioning relationship of such mind and spirit does not result in some combination of the qualities or attributes of mind and spirit but rather in an entirely new, original, and unique universe value of potentially eternal endurance, the soul.

111:2.4 (1218.2) There are three and not two factors in the evolutionary creation of such an immortal soul. These three antecedents of the morontia human soul are:

111:2.5 (1218.3) 1. The human mind and all cosmic influences antecedent thereto and impinging thereon.

111:2.6 (1218.4) 2. The divine spirit indwelling this human mind and all potentials inherent in such a fragment of absolute spirituality together with all associated spiritual influences and factors in human life.

111:2.7 (1218.5) 3. The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul.

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Aug 31, 2022 6:29 am +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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Please read Paper 111 to better consider the nature and growth and resilience of the mortal soul!!

111:3.5 (1219.4) The mortal career, the soul’s evolution, is not so much a probation as an education. Faith in the survival of supreme values is the core of religion; genuine religious experience consists in the union of supreme values and cosmic meanings as a realization of universal reality.

111:3.6 (1219.5) Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality—values—is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.

111:3.7 (1219.6) In so far as man’s evolving morontia soul becomes permeated by truth, beauty, and goodness as the value-realization of God-consciousness, such a resultant being becomes indestructible. If there is no survival of eternal values in the evolving soul of man, then mortal existence is without meaning, and life itself is a tragic illusion. But it is forever true: What you begin in time you will assuredly finish in eternity—if it is worth finishing.

111:4.2 (1220.1) Meanings are derived from a combination of recognition and understanding. Meanings are nonexistent in a wholly sensory or material world. Meanings and values are only perceived in the inner or supermaterial spheres of human experience.

As to doing the will of God:

111:5.1 (1221.2) The doing of the will of God is nothing more or less than an exhibition of creature willingness to share the inner life with God—with the very God who has made such a creature life of inner meaning-value possible. Sharing is Godlike—divine. God shares all with the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit, while they, in turn, share all things with the divine Sons and spirit Daughters of the universes.

8)

All human caring and sharing has meaning...and value!!

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Aug 31, 2022 7:04 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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100:4.4 In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life. These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. [b]Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation.[/b] If someone irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love.

Bradley, what motivates you to constantly disregard the issues I am trying to share while you pick apart the details so condescendingly? Why can you not just love what I wrote? Am I wrong? Then tell me how in a way that engages me as a person who knows God. Or do you think I don't know God? I am trying to love you brother but you make it so very difficult.


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Thanks for asking Jim. Yes...you are wrong (in my opinion). About several things here really. You are wrong to think our world is not progressive and progressing toward Light and Life. You are wrong to judge 7 billion souls according to your personal perspective and prejudices and preferences too.

How does anyone both disregard issues and pick apart details?? Nonsense. These are not nits being picked Jim. Your disregard and contractions of the text are real and quite substantial.

You are welcome to your opinions Jim. And certainly are they consistent!!! But the UB teaches us a universe reality perspective that does not support such disappointment and anxiety and such a low opinion of others' religious experience as you so frequently preach here. Your world view and judgements of others does not reflect the assurances of God's friendly universe so clearly and redundantly presented in the Papers.

You are wrong to always be so disappointed and negative about so much. All your sermons here demonstrate your perennial disappointment in others Jim. What's up with that?? You can't see the obvious evolutionary progress and accelerating trajectory of our world?? Or the certain effects of the Spirit of Truth?? You can't discern the truth, beauty, and goodness all around us all every day by 7 billion souls connected to to the Spirit???

Sorry...don't love what you wrote...or have written here for the past decade. Completely negative and contrary to the Revelation. Don't you too have enough beams to attend to without decrying the sawdust in the eyes of all others??

140:3.17 (1571.4) “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.

8)

Just my opinion...and thanks again for asking!! :wink:

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Sep 01, 2022 7:24 am +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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100:4.4 In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life.

This statement is the exact source of my essay. The ‘senses' are physical, material. This is our base connection to material reality. First we sense it. Next ‘mind discovers the reality of meanings.’ In other words, we think it. This order of process is ordained. Then we read ‘but the spiritual experience reveals the true values of life.’ Now comes the great challenge. Spiritual experience, what is it? Is it just the logical conclusions of thinking about spiritual things? Is it the feelings we encounter when we delve deeply into the unknown? Or is it something that has all the earmarks of reality identification we have learned to appreciate in the material and mindful realms but is unique and different?

Spiritual reality, the true value of God and the sustainer of all value perception by mortals, is a transcendent experiential reality. It is only known through the realization of personal experience. Once experienced we begin the process of analysis in our mind to attempt to come to terms with it. But, spiritual experience is not a manifestation within our minds, it is a manifestation of the spirit of God identified by our minds though embraced by us through our will. Spiritual experience is sourced from a separate place within us from our minds. Spirit is real! It is unique! It is within us but it is not of us until we become personally affiliated with it experientially. We must give ourselves to the task of its realization, with all our might. Only then can we know the value of reality.

Next read this:

‘These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation.’
The value Jesus placed on man is the value he experienced with his Father. The Father's indwelling spirit establishes the value potential of man. These are not achievements of our minds they are realizations of spirit reality perceived by our willingness to experience God as a child would, mindlessly.

Meaning and value are integrated in us through personal involvement in analyzing the relatedness of them but each hails from a different source. Meanings from mind, making mental decisions as to the best way to apply ourselves to them and values from our internal insight into the reality of God laid out before us. When we attempt to contain our perception of value to ideas we have understood from our previous experience with meanings, we limit our receptiveness to true spirit insight. Overcoming that tendency is called growing up. We don't think up a good concept of God and then make it better by learning about him. We must experience the reality of God in our souls and learn to trust our perception by faith. Then and only then can we decipher meanings adequately.

‘If someone irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love.’

Bradley, contrary to every teaching you purport to believe in, you have fought me at every step trying your best to thwart my efforts. It is time for you to stop and take notice of this. You are a great student of the Urantia Book. I love you for that. Now it is time for you to become a great student of Bradley and his real relationship with God. Let me learn to love you for this as well. And you can learn to love me for what God has done in me even if it doesn't match what you think you understand of the book.

Jim


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Jim George wrote:
100:4.4 In physical life the senses tell of the existence of things; mind discovers the reality of meanings; but the spiritual experience reveals to the individual the true values of life.

This statement is the exact source of my essay. The ‘senses' are physical, material. This is our base connection to material reality. First we sense it. Next ‘mind discovers the reality of meanings.’ In other words, we think it. This order of process is ordained. Then we read ‘but the spiritual experience reveals the true values of life.’ Now comes the great challenge. Spiritual experience, what is it? Is it just the logical conclusions of thinking about spiritual things? Is it the feelings we encounter when we delve deeply into the unknown? Or is it something that has all the earmarks of reality identification we have learned to appreciate in the material and mindful realms but is unique and different?

Spiritual reality, the true value of God and the sustainer of all value perception by mortals, is a transcendent experiential reality. It is only known through the realization of personal experience. Once experienced we begin the process of analysis in our mind to attempt to come to terms with it. But, spiritual experience is not a manifestation within our minds, it is a manifestation of the spirit of God identified by our minds though embraced by us through our will. Spiritual experience is sourced from a separate place within us from our minds. Spirit is real! It is unique! It is within us but it is not of us until we become personally affiliated with it experientially. We must give ourselves to the task of its realization, with all our might. Only then can we know the value of reality.

Next read this:

‘These high levels of human living are attained in the supreme love of God and in the unselfish love of man. If you love your fellow men, you must have discovered their values. Jesus loved men so much because he placed such a high value upon them. You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation.’
The value Jesus placed on man is the value he experienced with his Father. The Father's indwelling spirit establishes the value potential of man. These are not achievements of our minds they are realizations of spirit reality perceived by our willingness to experience God as a child would, mindlessly.

Meaning and value are integrated in us through personal involvement in analyzing the relatedness of them but each hails from a different source. Meanings from mind, making mental decisions as to the best way to apply ourselves to them and values from our internal insight into the reality of God laid out before us. When we attempt to contain our perception of value to ideas we have understood from our previous experience with meanings, we limit our receptiveness to true spirit insight. Overcoming that tendency is called growing up. We don't think up a good concept of God and then make it better by learning about him. We must experience the reality of God in our souls and learn to trust our perception by faith. Then and only then can we decipher meanings adequately.

‘If someone irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love.’

Bradley, contrary to every teaching you purport to believe in, you have fought me at every step trying your best to thwart my efforts. It is time for you to stop and take notice of this. You are a great student of the Urantia Book. I love you for that. Now it is time for you to become a great student of Bradley and his real relationship with God. Let me learn to love you for this as well. And you can learn to love me for what God has done in me even if it doesn't match what you think you understand of the book.

Jim


Hmmm.....

My disagreement is not personal Jim. I don't know you. Neither are my disagreements with your proclamations "contrary" to my "purported" beliefs. My beliefs could not be any less important or relevant either - it is the universe reality perspective of the Revelation we discuss and which you contradict here (but certainly my beliefs are not alleged or "purported" - what an insult). Personal indeed.

And I don't criticize you. Rather do I disagree specifically with your perspectives and claims and sermons here which defy and contradict the Papers we are supposed to study here. This is a UB study group Jim, not your congregation for your sermonizing.

8)

As to meaning and value...thinking or believing is not understanding. The value of any fact or truth, I think, is understanding the meaning of the fact and truth. Value is the wisdom acquired by experience. Is there any meaning to any experience that does not result in wisdom?? Isn't every expression of our Divine Connection, conscious or unconscious, a demonstration of both meaning and value??

Is faith only a function of knowledge or belief?? Nope. And of course our spiritual experience and growth is a function of mind Jim!!!! Spiritization and Circle Progress and experiential wisdom and contact with the Adjuster and soul itself is ALL mind all the time Jim. The soul is even called the mid-mind or morontial mind. The superconscious mind is where we contact and are connected to the Adjuster. Soul is the very child of human mind and the arena of choice.

Glad you hope to consider human faith and the religious experience of our natural Divine Connection and its endless demonstration by 7 billion souls.

8)

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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Bradley,

The Father's universe has room for both of us. All I am attempting to accomplish is that you allow him to show you how what he is doing with me is his will. I don't reject you like you do me, but I don't understand how you can read paper 100 and allow yourself to reject my reality views as I present them. This isn't about you and me, it's about how we as humans come to the realization of spiritual experience. Your overt willingness to reject my views is telling, yet you refuse to acknowledge that. So I again say, share your God with me so we can reconcile our differences and lets put this issue behind us for everyone's sake.


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Jim George wrote:
Bradley,

The Father's universe has room for both of us. All I am attempting to accomplish is that you allow him to show you how what he is doing with me is his will. I don't reject you like you do me, but I don't understand how you can read paper 100 and allow yourself to reject my reality views as I present them. This isn't about you and me, it's about how we as humans come to the realization of spiritual experience. Your overt willingness to reject my views is telling, yet you refuse to acknowledge that. So I again say, share your God with me so we can reconcile our differences and lets put this issue behind us for everyone's sake.


Hmmm....pretty sure I have acknowledged my disagreement with your views Jim. Not rejecting you Jim and God can do whatever with you...or you with God. Your relationship with God is your business and I have no opinions or advice or criticism or disappointment regarding that relationship Jim.

My God?? There is only one God and the same God to be shared by anybody Jim. Such an odd thing to say...really.

8)


48:4.15 (549.2) When we are tempted to magnify our self-importance, if we stop to contemplate the infinity of the greatness and grandeur of our Makers, our own self-glorification becomes sublimely ridiculous, even verging on the humorous....

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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You know Jim, not all of God's children are lost or strayed away (not even most I don't think). But all are safe because of the shepherd's Divine Connection!! Do the sheep find the shepherd?? Or respond to his presence and voice within??

169:1.15 (1853.2) Jesus was very partial to telling these three stories at the same time. He presented the story of the lost sheep to show that, when men unintentionally stray away from the path of life, the Father is mindful of such lost ones and goes out, with his Sons, the true shepherds of the flock, to seek the lost sheep. He then would recite the story of the coin lost in the house to illustrate how thorough is the divine searching for all who are confused, confounded, or otherwise spiritually blinded by the material cares and accumulations of life. And then he would launch forth into the telling of this parable of the lost son, the reception of the returning prodigal, to show how complete is the restoration of the lost son into his Father’s house and heart.

8)

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


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