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 Post subject: Intelectual achievement
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I'm new here so hello to everyone. I've been reading UB for about a year, absolutely love it.

First spontenous question:

How our intelectual achievement, collection of knowledge and philosophical progression within our mortal life will transfer or remain with us after arriving on first mansion world? Does TA judges values in those possesions and carries them for us?


Last edited by Rhinodonter on Mon Oct 10, 2022 10:07 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Rhinodonter wrote:
Im new here so hello to everyone. I've been reading UB for about a year, absolutely love it.

First spontenous question:

How our intelectual achievement, collection of knowledge and philosophical progression within our mortal life will transfer or remain with us after arriving on first mansion world? Does TA judges values in those possesions and carries them for us?


Greetings...and welcome!!


47:3.1 (532.7) On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.

47:3.2 (532.8) The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead.

47:3.3 (533.1) The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.

8)

All knowledge and wisdom gained and all potentials realized are forever with us. Faith, however, does not require nor is measured or limited by knowledge or intellectual capacity/achievement in this life!

8)

Keyword search - "intellectual":

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search


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Thanks!

So it's obvious then that I will remember that I for example studied UB and everything of value derived from it will survive within my memory?

112:5.21 And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity.

Also I encountered above sentence mentioning about how we will be quite distinctly transformed after death, and from one that you posted it seems like we will continue where we left of. I find myself wondering about it and trying to figure out what aspects of life will transform significantly and what will remain the same. What are your thoughts?

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Perhaps Paper 112, Section 6 might help.

There are significant differences between mortal mind connected to the 7 Adjutants and the morontia mind - which is not connected to the Adjutants circuit. This new level of consciousness and reality perspective is certainly transformative to our selfhood and awareness.

I speculate that the more spiritual we are and the greater our mortal faith experience and experiential wisdom already gained, perhaps the less radical is this change. Our soul is our morontia mind. Are we soul identified at death? Or material minded? That might make a difference?

112:5.3 (1232.4) Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing.

112:5.4 (1232.5) Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.

112:5.5 (1233.1) And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man’s greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.

112:5.6 (1233.2) Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.

112:5.7 (1233.3) If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.


8)

42:12.11 (483.11) The liaison of the cosmic mind and the ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits evolve a suitable physical tabernacle for the evolving human being. Likewise does the morontia mind individualize the morontia form for all mortal survivors. As the mortal body is personal and characteristic for every human being, so will the morontia form be highly individual and adequately characteristic of the creative mind which dominates it. No two morontia forms are any more alike than any two human bodies. The Morontia Power Supervisors sponsor, and the attending seraphim provide, the undifferentiated morontia material wherewith the morontia life can begin to work. And after the morontia life it will be found that spirit forms are equally diverse, personal, and characteristic of their respective spirit-mind indwellers.

42:12.12 (483.12) On a material world you think of a body as having a spirit, but we regard the spirit as having a body. The material eyes are truly the windows of the spirit-born soul. The spirit is the architect, the mind is the builder, the body is the material building.

8)


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Please allow me to offer my usual disclaimer and disclosure:

Anything written/posted by me that is not a direct quote from the text of the Papers is merely my personal opinions and perspective and understanding of the text. My opinions and perspective are subject to error and incompleteness and disagreement and corrections and future modifications based on my own greater experience and understanding and appreciation.

Feel free to challenge or disagree!! 

The discovery of knowledge and pursuit of understanding is a great adventure. Our curiosity is an intentional and purposeful bestowal.

I look forward to further discussions!


100:1.7 (1095.2) Religion cannot be bestowed, received, loaned, learned, or lost. It is a personal experience which grows proportionally to the growing quest for final values. Cosmic growth thus attends on the accumulation of meanings and the ever-expanding elevation of values. But nobility itself is always an unconscious growth.

100:4.1 (1097.5) Religious living is devoted living, and devoted living is creative living, original and spontaneous. New religious insights arise out of conflicts which initiate the choosing of new and better reaction habits in the place of older and inferior reaction patterns. New meanings only emerge amid conflict; and conflict persists only in the face of refusal to espouse the higher values connoted in superior meanings.

100:4.2 (1097.6) Religious perplexities are inevitable; there can be no growth without psychic conflict and spiritual agitation. The organization of a philosophic standard of living entails considerable commotion in the philosophic realms of the mind. Loyalties are not exercised in behalf of the great, the good, the true, and the noble without a struggle. Effort is attendant upon clarification of spiritual vision and enhancement of cosmic insight. And the human intellect protests against being weaned from subsisting upon the nonspiritual energies of temporal existence. The slothful animal mind rebels at the effort required to wrestle with cosmic problem solving.

:idea:


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112:5.6 (1233.2) Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.


Does probation extension time happens on mansion worlds? Is it the same as regular process of making up for our former deficiencies or is it entirely different phenomenon?


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Survival of material death insures additional time, as needed, to transfer the seat of identity and achieve circle progress. It is not a race and there is no time limit and there are few limits put on mercy or patience. One must knowingly and willingly self-terminate by the conscious embrace of sin and iniquity long enough to convince our parent(s) that there is no hope.

We all arrive on the mansion worlds with some assortment and combinations of deficiency. If we are not deficient in our material life then we fuse and translate directly without physical/material death...as is increasingly the case from those worlds settled in Light and Life.

8)

Mortals and all beings who originate in time are experiential. All experiences and expressions of truth, beauty, and goodness have an eternal and a universal effect. But eternity is the endless time horizon for the realization of experiential adventure and wisdom attainable!!


5.16 (52.2) The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations. But all such perfect beings are, in moral nature and spiritual status, what they are by virtue of the fact of existence. They have experientially earned advancement only within their inherent status. Mortal man earns even his status as an ascension candidate by his own faith and hope. Everything divine which the human mind grasps and the human soul acquires is an experiential attainment; it is a reality of personal experience and is therefore a unique possession in contrast to the inherent goodness and righteousness of the inerrant personalities of Havona.

3:5.17 (52.3) The creatures of Havona are naturally brave, but they are not courageous in the human sense. They are innately kind and considerate, but hardly altruistic in the human way. They are expectant of a pleasant future, but not hopeful in the exquisite manner of the trusting mortal of the uncertain evolutionary spheres. They have faith in the stability of the universe, but they are utter strangers to that saving faith whereby mortal man climbs from the status of an animal up to the portals of Paradise. They love the truth, but they know nothing of its soul-saving qualities. They are idealists, but they were born that way; they are wholly ignorant of the ecstasy of becoming such by exhilarating choice. They are loyal, but they have never experienced the thrill of wholehearted and intelligent devotion to duty in the face of temptation to default. They are unselfish, but they never gained such levels of experience by the magnificent conquest of a belligerent self. They enjoy pleasure, but they do not comprehend the sweetness of the pleasure escape from the pain potential.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
Survival of material death insures additional time, as needed, to transfer the seat of identity and achieve circle progress. It is not a race and there is no time limit and there are few limits put on mercy or patience. One must knowingly and willingly self-terminate by the conscious embrace of sin and iniquity long enough to convince our parent(s) that there is no hope.


The question that pops in my mind very often is related to death survival. What is your perspective on the phenomenon of not surviving death? How is it possible to just not survive? Could it happen to some extreme atheist or maybe extremly bad people?

110:6.16 (1211.1) Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels—actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind. These circle attainments are only relatively related to God-consciousness. A seventh or sixth circler can be almost as truly God-knowing—sonship conscious—as a second or first circler, but such lower circle beings are far less conscious of experiential relation to the Supreme Being, universe citizenship. The attainment of these cosmic circles will become a part of the ascenders’ experience on the mansion worlds if they fail of such achievement before natural death.

This highlighted sentence clearly provides insight that suriving mortal death and ressurecting on mansion world doesn't depend inclusively on our spiritual achievement. Even if we barely stop being an animalistic human, we still will have oportunity for further advancement on Jerusem satelites.

fanofVan wrote:
Mortals and all beings who originate in time are experiential. All experiences and expressions of truth, beauty, and goodness have an eternal and a universal effect. But eternity is the endless time horizon for the realization of experiential adventure and wisdom attainable!!


It's fun to explore and gain knowledge or wisdom but there is clearly no rush in eternity. :)


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My personal opinion is that once the soul is present then very few fail to survive. Soul is born, and the God Fragment arrives, by a child's first reflective moral choice. I think psychopaths and sociopaths and those who do not feel or express love, empathy, forgiveness, or morality are doomed.

Evil and sin due to immaturity, ignorance, animal or material urges, self interest, etc. may still and always find forgiveness and salvation. Remember Jesus taught that we can only receive love and forgiveness according to our willingness and capacity to give those. Hopes, ideals, kindness, generosity, forgiveness, love, and mercy are all evidence or fruits of the Spirit and bear witness to our Divine Connection.

God is love and has an abiding affection for the children of time.

8)


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Yes that is most likely the case...

I'am still trying to come to terms with my understanding of fairness of such reality. I fully trust in perfect fairness of our Paradise Father and his vast cosmic establishment but I presently must respect my limited capacity for perceiving all the inner niuanses. In my understanding psychopaths or sociopaths couldn't do much about their inability to empathise or performing choice to sudennly become different. It's like God made them that way and predestined their damnation? Maybe they still posess some abillity for choosing and within their limited spectrum it will be sufficient to achieve survival? :?:

Or maybe God experiences something unique and valuable through TA within them only to carry those values to the next person that will survive death and carry those distinct empirical experiences into eternity as a part of them? :?:

Probably these matters are too complex for our conclusive understanding.


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Fairness is such an important concept and law of God's friendly universe!!

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

10:6.17 (115.1) The Ancients of Days and their Trinity-origin associates mete out the just judgment of supreme fairness to the seven superuniverses. In the central universe such functions exist in theory only; there fairness is self-evident in perfection, and Havona perfection precludes all possibility of disharmony.

10:6.18 (115.2) Justice is the collective thought of righteousness; mercy is its personal expression. Mercy is the attitude of love; precision characterizes the operation of law; divine judgment is the soul of fairness, ever conforming to the justice of the Trinity, ever fulfilling the divine love of God. When fully perceived and completely understood, the righteous justice of the Trinity and the merciful love of the Universal Father are coincident. But man has no such full understanding of divine justice. Thus in the Trinity, as man would view it, the personalities of Father, Son, and Spirit are adjusted to co-ordinate ministry of love and law in the experiential universes of time.

8)


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That's definitely reassuring.

Although I have faith in this cosmic fairness at the same time it puzzles my mortal mind.
How can we look at this topic and feel warm satisfaction of understanding when it seems like some mortals that do not survive death are treated like animals in vast cosmic body of God :?:
That being said I'm not implying that animals are treated wrongly. Just diffrently then ascending mortals.
Most likely after death it will become clear.


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I think mercy and fairness and the Golden Rule are such profound concepts for human consideration and understanding. I think it wise to accept the reality of Divine Affection and Mercy.

The thing is freewill cannot (or is never) abrogated or negated by Deity. Simply cannot happen. How then can someone be saved from themselves except by patience? Evil and sin are unreality. They cannot be sustained or preserved. If someone chooses unreality and irrelevance long enough they are unable to receive love or mercy.

Love and mercy cannot be forced on any freewill beings. They must be received and can only be received as they are given to others. This is the algorithm of reality and freewill. Cannot be overcome.

Humans are not animals ONLY because of the functional connection of the Adjutants of Worship and Wisdom. We are thusly connected to Deity, directly and personally. We must respond to that natural Deity Connection by freewill to create soul and grow soul.

Only that can survive material death. Or so I understand the UB to teach.

8)


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39:1.8 (428.2) The seraphic court advisers serve extensively as defenders of mortals. Not that there ever exists any disposition to be unfair to the lowly creatures of the realms, but while justice demands the adjudication of every default in the climb towards divine perfection, mercy requires that every such misstep be fairly adjudged in accordance with the creature nature and the divine purpose. These angels are the exponents and exemplification of the element of mercy inherent in divine justice—of fairness based on the knowledge of the underlying facts of personal motives and racial tendencies.

8)

39:4.4 (434.4) 2. Justice Guides. These are the angels who present the summary of evidence concerning the eternal welfare of men and angels when such matters come up for adjudication in the tribunals of a system or a planet. They prepare the statements for all preliminary hearings involving mortal survival, statements which are subsequently carried with the records of such cases to the higher tribunals of the universe and the superuniverse. The defense of all cases of doubtful survival is prepared by these seraphim, who have a perfect understanding of all the details of every feature of every count in the indictments drawn by the administrators of universe justice.

39:4.5 (434.5) It is not the mission of these angels to defeat or to delay justice but rather to insure that unerring justice is dealt out with generous mercy in fairness to all creatures. These seraphim often function on the local worlds, commonly appearing before the referee trios of the conciliating commissions—the courts for minor misunderstandings. Many who at one time served as justice guides in the lower realms later appear as Voices of Mercy in the higher spheres and on Salvington.

8)


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I tend to imagine that it is rather rare for mortal to not survive death. Like in one way it is an attainment but an easy one. Almost too easy to fail. It is orcherstrated in that way, otherwise it would be slight abuse on expense of mortal creatures. So it has to be gentle admonition from our Father to strive for ascension. Difficult but easy to triumph over death - life. O:)

2:5.2 (39.1) God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.”


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