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My friends:
There is a wonderful thing happening. A group of Urantia Book readers is getting together to try to share the light of the Fifth Epochal Revelation with a world struggling in darkness. Will they succeed? Will they fail? Only time will tell. But I am delighted to see them try. And what are these individuals calling this adventure? The Church of the Universal Father.

Why call it a church? I have asked myself this time and time again. Myself, I am ambivalent about churches. I’ve never belonged to one, or hardly ever been inside of one, except a few times (I did get married in one). But on the whole I am tolerant of them. Tolerance. That’s a big concept. And that’s what got me, an outsider to churches, thinking…

I guess that here on this particular planet, that’s how it has worked up till now. People went to churches, or mosques, or shrines, or whatever! Go back a thousand or two years and they danced around the ceremonial fires… I don’t know; it’s custom. And most people on this world seem to need custom… they need that stability in their difficult lives.

The UB says we should draw very near to people to infect them with our fruits of love and service. I think that the individuals spearheading the effort of the Church of the Universal Father hope to use this as a vehicle to draw very close to people who might otherwise have to wait generations for this good news to come to them, and to share with them as much of the good news as they are willing to hear. I personally find this thrilling! Imagine… this is an opportunity to actually try to be, collectively at least, that next greater John the Baptist, who will someday reawaken the spirit of Jesus, which is slumbering inside our civilization. This can be an opportunity to accrue those “talents” which the Master asked us to gain thru sharing, and which we will be held accountable for at the end of our earthly adventure. Again, will we succeed? Who knows, and really, who cares! Every effort moves mankind incrementally forward on that long path to a final age of light and life. I say it great, even in the light of possible failure, just to have been a part of it.

So join me and my friends if you will, in the Church of the Universal Father. I know I have been struggling for a long time on how to best share the fruits of the spirit with my fellows, and I have decided that for now, and for me at least, this is a good way to proceed. And for those who eschew the idea of a church, no worries! Live and let live, as I always say. Tolerance, tolerance and more tolerance. It’s a big universe, and there is room for all types of expression of the worship of our Father.

Al
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Good post Al.

I like that you understand that different needs are okay. I couldn't possibly sit still in a church...just to hyper and too into going outside to pray...for me..definitely more about just hanging out with the Father in every moment and being in "church" every time I love my brothers and sisters and share my relationship with God.

I too see those who need a "place" to come together..they even need rituals...I couldn't sit in church long myself...but I love my fellows so much that I see their needs as equal and valuable...so I pray they get what they need too. I also pray that those very experienced readers would consider working within some of these organizations to avoid the "problems" better...maybe not succeed..but I'll bet they would have a better chance at a good direction with that balancing experience which could help positively direct the excited energy of the "builders." I read the posts of those long time readers and think every time...Boy! if I ever tried to do anything to spread TUB...I would want their balance, experience, and concern helping me stay on a good path. I know if they ever asked for my help...I'd give it. I am good with construction etc. and would definitely want to help build a sound building...just seems like the right thing to do.

I love study groups...they have been worship filled for me. Of course..if this church should say...have an awesome bbq...ya know I'd be there :lol:

Tolerance of others needs is valuable (within reason and common sense of course) but definitely valuable....my rights and needs usually end exactly where my fellows begin so my "no need for a church" ends right where others need for a "church" begins. I pray hard that my fellows get what they need and they can grow toward the Father in the most loving and productive way possible for them. Blessings to each and all on their journey. Blessings to all on their works and where they feel led to be in life.

How would Jesus teach in this situation? How would he guide me to behave toward my fellows? Those are the most important questions for me. The feeling I get is the Master would have approached us all with love, genuine caring, and dignity.
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The secret of a better civilization is bound up in the Master's teachings of the brotherhood of man, the good will of love and mutual trust. The Urantia Book, 194:3.12


Peace to all
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My stand on this issue is still the same. A church based on the UB is inevitable but I believe it's unnecessary. And the revelators are kind enough to give guidance to those who will build it. So, I wish success on this endeavor. Our Father weighs the motive more than the act.
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alwilliams767 wrote:
The UB says we should draw very near to people to infect them with our fruits of love and service. I think that the individuals spearheading the effort of the Church of the Universal Father hope to use this as a vehicle to draw very close to people who might otherwise have to wait generations for this good news to come to them, and to share with them as much of the good news as they are willing to hear.


And that's the exact same mind set that trapped Eve into thinking she could side step God's plan. After all, she had good intentions; all she wanted to do is draw very close to people who otherwise would have to wait generations. Personally, I would think and pray, long and hard on that one.

alwilliams767 wrote:
Again, will we succeed? Who knows, and really, who cares!


I can't believe I just read that. We all have to suffer for one another's errors. We've been suffering for 40,000 years because of Eve's blunder, and 2000 years for Peter and Paul's mistakes. How many years will we suffer if your endeavor is another error? We all care, we care very, very much. Personally, I would think and pray, long and hard on that one.

alwilliams767 wrote:
Every effort moves mankind incrementally forward on that long path to a final age of light and life. I say it great, even in the light of possible failure, just to have been a part of it.


All I can do is quote the Master on that one: “. . . may your wisdom equal your zeal and your courage atone for your ignorance.” 140.7.5
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If it weren't for Peter and Paul's attempts to socialize the teachings of Christ, with the attached warts and all, your life today would not be worth living. Most of you would be slaves.

It's a glass half full, not half empty.
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Well, it didn't do much for women, so that theory is not much for me to get excited about. The planet is just as barbaric now as it was then.

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It could be the other way around, don't you think?
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I Thank you Al an Robert
For planting the seeds that in time Will evolve
and shall bear much fruit .

Its a option that we should have now .

AND The Choice to choose it .

Lets feed the sheep and each other
in the gospel OF Jesus . AMEN

In Fathers service

Faith son
Coop

Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
- Matthew 7:7-8

"Have faith in God," Jesus answered. "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."
- Mark 11:22-24


Last edited by coop on Sat May 08, 2010 12:14 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Al....continue on your journey as you feel led. Coop's right...we each do have that individual choice.

And...nothing ventured, nothing gained. Once upon a time people laughed when someone said that one day we would fly...or something like that :roll:

It's all an adventure anyway...

Peace
Jo

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No longer can man presume to monopolize the ministry of religious service. ...among the followers of Jesus woman has been forever set free from all religious discriminations based on gender. TUB pg 2065 (194:3.14)
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So, we have two ways now. Organized way and personal way. Personal way seem to be the slow but sure way to succeed.

The weakest link in the organized way is the leadership. The error it makes will infect the whole. If it is a democracy, the leadership may be trapped by mediocrity. If the leader is a strong one like Peter and Paul, let's hope s/he is wise and inspired not to put personal understandings into the teaching.

Maybe, maybe, a group of God-conscious mortals can actually establish a truly enlightened democracy on earth. A true church can be a advanced demonstration of an ideal democracy.
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Rsarmast wrote:
If it weren't for Peter and Paul's attempts to socialize the teachings of Christ, with the attached warts and all, your life today would not be worth living. Most of you would be slaves.


What in God's name are you talking about brother? The Spirit of Truth did the work, not Peter and Paul. And even if Peter and Paul had not socialized religion, the Spirit of Truth would have continued on in spite of them. We still have that very same Spirit with us today, so we can never be slaves. I'm sorry, but that excuse will not work with me. And furthermore, the truth in fact is that it was Constantine who made Christianity what it is today.
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Rsarmast wrote:
If it weren't for Peter and Paul's attempts to socialize the teachings of Christ, with the attached warts and all, your life today would not be worth living. Most of you would be slaves.

Bonita
What in God's name are you talking about brother? The Spirit of Truth did the work, not Peter and Paul. And even if Peter and Paul had not socialized religion, the Spirit of Truth would have continued on in spite of them. We still have that very same Spirit with us today, so we can never be slaves. I'm sorry, but that excuse will not work with me. And furthermore, the truth in fact is that it was Constantine who made Christianity what it is today.


Actually Paul got a little off track...but the Spirit was still able to work with him and about him. We're experiential, not perfect.

We're also supposed to be involved in this living thing...not isolated and simply stuck in our head. The SOT isn't gonna be able to get much accomplished with a rock.

Peace
Jo

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jak wrote:
We're also supposed to be involved in this living thing...not isolated and simply stuck in our head. The SOT isn't gonna be able to get much accomplished with a rock.


No one here is isolated or stuck in their head . . . well, maybe Bart, I'm not sure. (Bart, don't be offended if you ventured away from the chaos thread to read this.) The Spirit of Truth can only do his own work if you let him do it, meaning you get yourself out of his way. Most of us don't really know how to do that very well.
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The Spirit of Truth can only do his own work if you let him do it, meaning you get yourself out of his way. Most of us don't really know how to do that very well.


The art of complimenting the Spirit takes practice, more practice, and more practice on decision making.

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P.383 - §2 Having started out on the way of life everlasting, having accepted the assignment and received your orders to advance, do not fear the dangers of human forgetfulness and mortal inconstancy, do not be troubled with doubts of failure or by perplexing confusion, do not falter and question your status and standing, for in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle, the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, "This is the way."
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jak wrote:
We're also supposed to be involved in this living thing...not isolated and simply stuck in our head. The SOT isn't gonna be able to get much accomplished with a rock.

Bonita
No one here is isolated or stuck in their head . . . well, maybe Bart, I'm not sure. (Bart, don't be offended if you ventured away from the chaos thread to read this.) The Spirit of Truth can only do his own work if you let him do it, meaning you get yourself out of his way. Most of us don't really know how to do that very well.


I'm not so sure about that. There's a hefty amount of intellectual arguments being put out there along with the insistence that the one presenting a particular interpretation must be the correct interpretation. Yet I seriously suspect that those insisting that they alone have the correct interpretation have some level of emotional baggage/experience/bias somewhere behind the intellect.

One can always fall back on claiming to only be doing what Jesus would do or as instructed but that is also filtered through the prism of the ego; there is no escaping it for any mortal, regardless of the intellectual or spiritual awareness...it's present. We may learn by living/prayer/worship/communion to rise above it, or move beyond it on occasion, but for the most part our ego is with us. And that isn't a negative...more like an impetus for learning.

We will always "be in the way" to some extent...at least as long as we're here on this piece of dirt. We continuously struggle with the duality of our very human body and our emerging spirituality. Tension between the two is present to the extent that we aware of that duality. We may have moments of complete surrender of our heart and mind but then the phone rings and someone needs a ride in 10 minutes, or a neighbor knocks on your door to let you know your car just got creamed by an out of control driver...or you stub your toe on the corner of the coffee table...the list of interruptions is as endless, as petty and as serious as life. And those very interruptions contain our lessons in living and growing. Make a mistake, try not to make the same one again...but another mistake or error in judgement will definitely occur. I can't expect to sit and read/study the UB or any other book with any change taking place...other than my intellectual knowledge. It takes some level of action on my part for any info I have gathered to be incorporated into my being. And the SOT will take every action and use it in whatever way is needed...I count on it.

Guess that's why I'm not too concerned whenever I hear that a person feels the need to gather with other like-minded people and the word church slips out. I have no control over what the SOT has in mind, or how it is working within another...thankfully no one has that capability. I have made some pretty outstanding mistakes, absolute utter messes that, 15-20 years down the road proved to be of benefit to myself or to another. I had nothing to do with those results, yet my mistakes were utilized and turned into a positive. God knows that was an astounding discovery!
I agree with whoever posted recently on this or another thread: We are responsible for our actions, our behavior...God is in control of the results. I'm very aware that within this ongoing discussion about church/religion/TUB we are actively attempting to participate with that Spirit of Truth.
Pretty amazing.

Peace
Jo

On second thought...I don't believe we are "in the way" ...we're not little robots. But our participation requires that we deal with our God given ego. Or not...still our choice.

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