Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Sun Jan 05, 2025 11:42 am +0000

The TruthBook forum will no longer accept new posts. Please continue to read, search, and enjoy all posts made to prior October 28. No login is needed now to access the valuable resource, so it is open to everyone! For more information, please click HERE.


All times are UTC - 7 hours




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 431 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1087
The cleansing of the temple was the ONE time, in his 33 years of mortal life on Urantia, that Jesus took aggressive action like that. Do a UB word search on "nonresistance" and see how strongly Jesus felt about not only resisting taking vengeance or action in the face of unfairness, but acting positively toward it, returning good for evil.

I think your whole 'cleansed the temple" schtick is played out at this point.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 6039
mrlucky1x wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Mark/mrlucky posts: "World govt. is an important milestone and needs to have careful considerations of the motives of those advocating such things."

The Urantia Papers advocate "such things". So do I. And so do millions, perhaps billions of people.

Are you questioning the motivation of everyone who supports international cooperation and globalization??

:roll: :? :-&


Absolutely. What are the self-interests of such supporters? Are they sincere? Do they have economic conflicts of interest? Use the same forms of scrutiny Jesus used.


121:7:3 (1340.1) The scribes, the pharisees, and the priesthood held the Jews in a terrible bondage of ritualism and legalism, a bondage far more real than that of the Roman political rule.

126:0:3 (1386.3) Jesus had great respect for the sincere pharisees and the honest scribes, but he held the hypocritical Pharisees and the dishonest theologians in great contempt; he looked with disdain upon all those religious leaders who were not sincere.

The exploitation that triggered Jesus to cleanse the temple was the monopoly the greedy priests had over the sale of sacrificial animals:

173:1.2 (1888.5) This sale of animals in the temple prospered because, when the worshiper purchased such an animal, although the price might be somewhat high, no more fees had to be paid, and he could be sure the intended sacrifice would not be rejected on the ground of possessing real or technical blemishes. At one time or another systems of exorbitant overcharge were practiced upon the common people, especially during the great national feasts. At one time the greedy priests went so far as to demand the equivalent of the value of a week’s labor for a pair of doves which should have been sold to the poor for a few pennies. The “sons of Annas” had already begun to establish their bazaars in the temple precincts, those very merchandise marts which persisted to the time of their final overthrow by a mob three years before the destruction of the temple itself.


So....all those who support universal suffrage and international cooperation and globalization and social evolutionary progress are greedy? And power mongers? Jesus had great respect and admiration for the sincere and honest, so are there no sincere or honest supporters of internationalism and world unity??

You do know that public health and service organizations are not oligarchs, right? Globalization is inevitable and definitive evidence of planetary progress. Exactly who is in charge of this global conspiracy you fear so much????

:wink:

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:05 am +0000
Posts: 76
fanofVan wrote:
So....all those who support universal suffrage and international cooperation and globalization and social evolutionary progress are greedy? And power mongers? Jesus had great respect and admiration for the sincere and honest, so are there no sincere or honest supporters of internationalism and world unity??

You do know that public health and service organizations are not oligarchs, right? Globalization is inevitable and definitive evidence of planetary progress. Exactly who is in charge of this global conspiracy you fear so much????


Oligarchs can buy undue influence and subvert certain morally weak individuals in those service organizations. Watch the true-story movie Dope Sick to see how they do it. Reread cleansing the temple to see how an exploitation model is set up and then follow Jesus advice in how to deal with it. Pretty straight forward. Watch for the wolves and follow Jesus advice:

140:9:3 (1584.2) And finally he said: “Behold I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves; be you therefore as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 6039
Come come...quit being so obtuse and melodramatic...who are the oligarchs paying which morally weak people in which organizations???

This is literally insane...and personal political rhetoric and paranoid, delusional propoganda.

What the heck...

:roll:

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:37 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1087
During his mortal career on Urantia, Jesus didn't get involved in politics or matters of state. He was often asked by the Zealots to join their cause and he refused. The cleansing of the temple involved the profaning of a sacred space; a place where people go to worship and share ideas and teachings about God.

I wonder how Jesus would react today to the corruption in the Catholic Church? The Morrnon Church? And so many other churches where vulnerable children and others are used and abused freely by the so-called "priests" and other "responsible adults"? These churches do not 'cleanse' their temples; no, they shuttle these defective priests from parish to parish, to inflict their abuse on yet another congregation of innocent children.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:05 am +0000
Posts: 76
fanofVan wrote:
Come come...quit being so obtuse and melodramatic...who are the oligarchs paying which morally weak people in which organizations???

This is literally insane...and personal political rhetoric and paranoid, delusional propoganda.

And still is it allowed here???!!!!

What the heck...

:roll:


Watch the true-story movie Dope Sick to see how they do it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:05 am +0000
Posts: 76
Agon D. Onter wrote:
During his mortal career on Urantia, Jesus didn't get involved in politics or matters of state. He was often asked by the Zealots to join their cause and he refused. The cleansing of the temple involved the profaning of a sacred space; a place where people go to worship and share ideas and teachings about God.
I wonder how Jesus would react today to the corruption in the Catholic Church? The Morrnon Church? And so many other churches where vulnerable children and others are used and abused freely by the so-called "priests" and other "responsible adults"? These churches do not 'cleanse' their temples; no, they shuttle these defective priests from parish to parish, to inflict their abuse on yet another congregation of innocent children.

You are absolutely right. The corruption of the religious space in the temple by the greedy priests was Jesus red line in the sand. The revelators add the additional comment concerning political, economical, and ecclesiastical exploitation. Jesus and the revelators are very outspoken in their condemnation of all manner of exploitation but they don't just end there. They do not approve of the "refusal to employ force to protect the majority of any given human group". I know. This passage is very out of step with other parts of the Urantia Papers so it's inclusion is very thought provoking and worthy of discussion as to how it integrates with rest of Jesus teachings.

Paper 70 - The Evolution of Human Government
70:12:14 (798.13) exploitation by the unscrupulous

Paper 132 - The Sojourn at Rome
132:5:18 (1464.2) No noble man will strive to accumulate riches and amass wealth-power by the enslavement or unfair exploitation of his brothers in the flesh.

Paper 132 - The Sojourn at Rome
132:5:6 (1462.7) Unfair wealth—riches derived from the unfair exploitation or the enslavement of one’s fellows.

Paper 163 - Ordination of the Seventy at Magadan
163:2:11 (1803.2) But there was one economic abuse which he many times condemned, and that was the unfair exploitation of the weak, unlearned, and less fortunate of men by their strong, keen, and more intelligent fellows.

Paper 173 - Monday in Jerusalem
173:1:11 (1891.1) Shrewd, wicked, and designing men are not to be permitted to organize themselves for the exploitation and oppression of those who, because of their idealism, are not disposed to resort to force for self-protection or for the furtherance of their laudable life projects.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 6039
mrlucky1x wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Come come...quit being so obtuse and melodramatic...who are the oligarchs paying which morally weak people in which organizations???

This is literally insane...and personal political rhetoric and paranoid, delusional propoganda.

And still is it allowed here???!!!!

What the heck...

:roll:


Watch the true-story movie Dope Sick to see how they do it.


Sounds completely irrational. Urantia Book students, and all others too, should be opposed to international cooperation and globalization because you saw a movie about greed and corruption in the pharmaceutical industry related to the opioid crisis??

It's about a small, family owned pharmaceutical company that lied about the addictiveness of oxycotin, right? These are your world controlling oligarchs??? Really?? So, isn't this being settled in court and quite publicly?

You are claiming then that we should oppose evolutionary progress until there is no greed and no corruption anywhere first??

And this is, somehow, not irrational??

Hardly a global conspiracy of oligarchs...

From Wiki:

"Purdue Pharma L.P., formerly the Purdue Frederick Company, is an American privately held pharmaceutical company founded by John Purdue Gray. It was owned principally by members of the Sackler family as descendants of Mortimer and Raymond Sackler.[1][2] In 2007, it paid out one of the largest fines ever levied against a pharmaceutical firm for mislabeling of its product OxyContin, and three executives were found guilty of criminal charges.[3][4] Purdue Pharma will rebrand as KNOA Pharma.[5] Although the company shifted its focus to abuse-deterrent formulations, Purdue continued to market and sell opioids as late as 2019 and continued to be involved in lawsuits around the opioid epidemic in the United States.[6][7] Purdue filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on September 15, 2019, in New York City.[8][9]

Me here: By the way, the show is well produced and rated and tells a common story of greed and corruption and cover-up and the downfall and disgrace of the privileged family involved.

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:39 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1321
Location: Denver CO
That movie Dope Sick is quite an eye-opener. But you must remember that it had a very satisfying ending, showing the serious consequences for those who perpetrated this abomination, although there are still a lot of addicted persons/victims paying the price for their greed and immorality.

And even the mighty Catholic Church has been brought up short in its cover-ups of child abuse, both here, and now in the Canada Indian school scandals, even to the point of the pope himself making a public apology. This is progress, but it didn't happen overnight.

So wealthy and power-mad oligarchs run scams and exploit the poor, the weak, and the unlearned...nothing new there. And Jesus did not fix any of that in his time. He may have preached against it, but outside of the temple cleansing, he didn't get involved.

Let's not let this topic run amok, talking about all the evil in the world and how Jesus cleansed the temple, a one-off event brought about by a very specific set of circumstances. Evil's been here a long time. And AgonD is right to point out that Jesus did not busy himself with poilitics or any other kind of social causes. His main focus was the spiritual life of the individual.

And as far as our being watchdogs for world government...we are barely keeping our own democracy in shape these days, much less having to worry ourselves about a world government that is years, maybe decades, maybe centuries in the future.

World government is a HUGE evolutionary step that is not going to happen any time soon. Will evil people want to control and dictate how it happens? Very likely so, but just like in the Catholic Church scandals, this kind of evil cannot long stand. There ARE people of goodwill who are actively working against evil actors and working FOR justice and social equality. But we all know these things take time to come to fruition.

Remember he repercussions of impatience...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:05 am +0000
Posts: 76
fanofVan wrote:

Sounds completely irrational. Urantia Book students, and all others too, should be opposed to international cooperation and globalization because you saw a movie about greed and corruption in the pharmaceutical industry related to the opioid crisis??

It's about a small, family owned pharmaceutical company that lied about the addictiveness of oxycotin, right? These are your world controlling oligarchs??? Really?? So, isn't this being settled in court and quite publicly?

You are claiming then that we should oppose evolutionary progress until there is no greed and no corruption anywhere first??

And this is, somehow, not irrational??

Hardly a global conspiracy of oligarchs...

From Wiki:

"Purdue Pharma L.P., formerly the Purdue Frederick Company, is an American privately held pharmaceutical company founded by John Purdue Gray. It was owned principally by members of the Sackler family as descendants of Mortimer and Raymond Sackler.[1][2] In 2007, it paid out one of the largest fines ever levied against a pharmaceutical firm for mislabeling of its product OxyContin, and three executives were found guilty of criminal charges.[3][4] Purdue Pharma will rebrand as KNOA Pharma.[5] Although the company shifted its focus to abuse-deterrent formulations, Purdue continued to market and sell opioids as late as 2019 and continued to be involved in lawsuits around the opioid epidemic in the United States.[6][7] Purdue filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on September 15, 2019, in New York City.[8][9]

Me here: By the way, the show is well produced and rated and tells a common story of greed and corruption and cover-up and the downfall and disgrace of the privileged family involved.


Purdue Pharma is only the tip of the iceberg but your are free to ignore Jesus admonitions and do nothing about such exploitations. You may have a different calling. That's between you and God.

117:5:5 (1286.3) “The act is ours, the consequences God’s.”


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 6039
mrlucky1x wrote:
fanofVan wrote:

Sounds completely irrational. Urantia Book students, and all others too, should be opposed to international cooperation and globalization because you saw a movie about greed and corruption in the pharmaceutical industry related to the opioid crisis??

It's about a small, family owned pharmaceutical company that lied about the addictiveness of oxycotin, right? These are your world controlling oligarchs??? Really?? So, isn't this being settled in court and quite publicly?

You are claiming then that we should oppose evolutionary progress until there is no greed and no corruption anywhere first??

And this is, somehow, not irrational??

Hardly a global conspiracy of oligarchs...

From Wiki:

"Purdue Pharma L.P., formerly the Purdue Frederick Company, is an American privately held pharmaceutical company founded by John Purdue Gray. It was owned principally by members of the Sackler family as descendants of Mortimer and Raymond Sackler.[1][2] In 2007, it paid out one of the largest fines ever levied against a pharmaceutical firm for mislabeling of its product OxyContin, and three executives were found guilty of criminal charges.[3][4] Purdue Pharma will rebrand as KNOA Pharma.[5] Although the company shifted its focus to abuse-deterrent formulations, Purdue continued to market and sell opioids as late as 2019 and continued to be involved in lawsuits around the opioid epidemic in the United States.[6][7] Purdue filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection on September 15, 2019, in New York City.[8][9]

Me here: By the way, the show is well produced and rated and tells a common story of greed and corruption and cover-up and the downfall and disgrace of the privileged family involved.


Purdue Pharma is only the tip of the iceberg but your are free to ignore Jesus admonitions and do nothing about such exploitations. You may have a different calling. That's between you and God.

117:5:5 (1286.3) “The act is ours, the consequences God’s.”


Thanks for your permission to exercise my freewill!

My calling is certainly not fearmongering and the political rhetoric of paranoia and opposition to evolutionary planetary progress. Nor is it my calling to tell others what to fear or who to blame or what to do or what to believe.

Take care Mark.

:wink: :-$ :biggrin:

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1087
Mr. Lucky,
Thank for your that post (which I will not quote as I suspect it will be deleted very soon) because it has revealed your true nature and motive here. You are not here in good faith to discuss and study the Urantia Book. You are here to push your far right agenda and propaganda of bigotry and hate. That stuff is welcome at greatawakening but not here. Go be with your own kind.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2022 4:45 pm +0000
Posts: 41
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Mr. Lucky,
Thank for your that post (which I will not quote as I suspect it will be deleted very soon) because it has revealed your true nature and motive here. You are not here in good faith to discuss and study the Urantia Book. You are here to push your far right agenda and propaganda of bigotry and hate. That stuff is welcome at greatawakening but not here. Go be with your own kind.

.
Ha! Yessssss I too am surprised - not surprised - that this is here. That this Post has been allowed to go on this long, twenty something pages and that other ridiculous Post on here that's gone over 50 pages. More demonstration that Admin doesn't know what they're doing here and it's never going to get any better until they get a new Board Admin. This site will continue to languish until then. Makes me a little sad ..... I don't own it so it's not my responsibility.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:52 am +0000
Posts: 1087
I think the Admin does just fine here. We are lucky to have her, actually. It's a volunteer gig and requires a lot of time and dedication and I think it's mostly fair.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 6039
Certainly has Mark/mrlucky's motive, agenda, and violation of and disregard for TB Guidelines been apparent since his first post.

But Mark's politicized posts provide an opportunity to consider the very real fears, anxiety, confusion, and the perspectives of distraction and distortion so many people suffer from...even, apparently, some who claim to follow the Jesusonian Gospel and UB teachings.

Sad really. To witness such irrational confidence in political prejudice and the fearmongering of such an obvious agenda and motivation in complete contradiction of the Papers.

The Guidelines here were written with purpose and for cause!

Such an important topic to become so polluted by fear and hate. I am sure the community and the conversation will recover once Mark's madness subsides or is blocked from further nonsense.

Here's hoping!! :shock: :-s :? :wink:

_________________
"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Aug 05, 2022 6:41 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 431 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 25, 26, 27, 28, 29  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group