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100:2.7 (1096.4) Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.

The above is one of my favorite quotes, and I ran across it three times this week, and as always it is like a flash of lightning on the stage of current worldwide unrest. This morning I felt the urge to write a song and I was able to write the following in about 10 minutes, the inspiration was flowing!

But for creative types sometimes we catch the idea but when it comes time to put pen to paper it is hard to express the inspiration to a structured language such as English. We can get a slight grasp of what the Authors had to deal with in trying to express supernal descriptions into 1930s American English!

Anyway, following are the lyrics to an as yet unwritten melody

There is a fortress
deep within the soul
Where trouble cannot breach the gates
Where fear has no control
From within we see with different eyes the world and all it holds
At peace though winds are raging, lightning strikes and thunder rolls

We gaze upon eternity
We see beyond these present woes
And remain calm, unshaken in the face of friend and foe

O citadel of my spirit
Enclose me in your arms
Prepare me for tomorrow
Today protect me from all harm
Citadel o citadel
Grant me refuge
Give me rest
Renew my faith and vision
Help me learn from every test

At last the storm is over
And I face the coming dawn
With renewed strength and confidence
I am ready to move on
I do not fear what lies before me
The road I take is clear
And the citadel within me
Is ever present, ever near

O citadel of my spirit
Enclose me in your arms
Prepare me for tomorrow
Today protect me from all harm
Citadel o citadel
Grant me refuge
Give me rest
Renew my faith and vision
Help me learn from every test


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Hi Pethuel,

That's a magnificent piece of lyrical art!

Sometimes some of the finest songs begin with only the lyrics, possibly because, in many ways, musical parameters are more flexible than verbal expressions.

If I were to develop this into music, I think I would read through it many times to try to get an idea of what type rhythmic patterns could fit.


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Thanks Riktare! Normally when I get a song it starts with just a line of lyric or melody and as I follow the thread it develops and sometimes (with songs I consider as "inspired") I am finished in 15 or 20 minutes! Other ideas I sit on for days or even years until the rest of the song comes together. These lyrics for "Citadel" came in a rush but oddly there wasn't a hint of a melodic line or groove. Perhaps it's because my studio is in such a state of disarray because of moving and changes etc., or maybe I missed a cue somewhere. Thanks to your comments I will take another look and listen and see what happens! Every now and then I feel the urge to compose only for Urantia readers, other times for the general public.

The other day I was talking to a friend in the recording business and he said "Watch this" and he opened ChatGPT and asked it to compose lyrics for a samba telling the story of some historical figure in Brazilian history. In less than two minutes it wrote a samba with 7 verses and a chorus, and you would never think it was done by A.I. I was impressed, but knowing how hard it is to convincingly translate samba into English I suggested the guy ask the A.I. for an English version, which was also delivered in less than two minutes and an excellent version at that!

I wonder if hearts get touched by A.I. generated lyrics, do listeners get motivated or encouraged? Few current pop hits try to "reach" people on a deep level so I imagine A.I. will make Tin Pan Alley hits sound like deep philosophical musings haha. We'll see!


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Wow. Every time I hear a story like this, where AI acheives some amazing feat in a flash - whether it is in art, in rephrasing concepts in the UB, or in music, like with your friend and his samba - I am amazed. But also I get a little niggling worry in the back of my mind that our machines are going to overtake humanity and just make us irrelevant.

Question: does AI also write music? Like could you ask it to create a melody for your lyrics? Have you ever done that?

Just as an aside, and for curiosity, I did a search in the UB for the word machines and got ten references.
https://truthbook.com/search-wpsolr/?search=%22machines%22

This passage interested me:
Quote:
195:7.11 (2079.6) If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine status.


So I asked ChatGPT if it could evaluate itself and this is what I got:

Quote:
As an AI language model, I don't possess personal experiences, emotions, or consciousness in the way humans do, so I can't evaluate myself in the same way a person might evaluate themselves. However, I can provide information about my capabilities and limitations based on my programming and the data I've been trained on.

I have been designed to process and generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I can assist with a wide range of tasks including answering questions, providing explanations, generating creative content, offering advice, and more. However, it's important to note that my responses are based solely on patterns in the data I've been trained on and may not always be accurate or appropriate for every situation.

While I strive to provide helpful and accurate responses, I am not infallible and may occasionally make mistakes or provide information that is outdated or incorrect. Users should always use their own judgment and verify information from reliable sources when making decisions based on my responses. Additionally, I don't have the ability to learn or improve beyond my initial training data, so I may not be aware of developments or information that has emerged since my last update.

Overall, I am a tool designed to assist users with various tasks involving natural language processing, but I am not capable of self-evaluation or independent thought.


So that was reassuring...


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So I'm starting a band called the Frandalanks. We write songs by request. And yes, we use loopers.

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maryjo606 wrote:
Wow. Every time I hear a story like this, where AI acheives some amazing feat in a flash - whether it is in art, in rephrasing concepts in the UB, or in music, like with your friend and his samba - I am amazed. But also I get a little niggling worry in the back of my mind that our machines are going to overtake humanity and just make us irrelevant.

Question: does AI also write music? Like could you ask it to create a melody for your lyrics? Have you ever done that?

Just as an aside, and for curiosity, I did a search in the UB for the word machines and got ten references.
https://truthbook.com/search-wpsolr/?search=%22machines%22

This passage interested me:
Quote:
195:7.11 (2079.6) If the universe were only material and man only a machine, there would be no science to embolden the scientist to postulate this mechanization of the universe. Machines cannot measure, classify, nor evaluate themselves. Such a scientific piece of work could be executed only by some entity of supermachine status.


So I asked ChatGPT if it could evaluate itself and this is what I got:

Quote:
As an AI language model, I don't possess personal experiences, emotions, or consciousness in the way humans do, so I can't evaluate myself in the same way a person might evaluate themselves. However, I can provide information about my capabilities and limitations based on my programming and the data I've been trained on.

I have been designed to process and generate human-like text based on the input I receive. I can assist with a wide range of tasks including answering questions, providing explanations, generating creative content, offering advice, and more. However, it's important to note that my responses are based solely on patterns in the data I've been trained on and may not always be accurate or appropriate for every situation.

While I strive to provide helpful and accurate responses, I am not infallible and may occasionally make mistakes or provide information that is outdated or incorrect. Users should always use their own judgment and verify information from reliable sources when making decisions based on my responses. Additionally, I don't have the ability to learn or improve beyond my initial training data, so I may not be aware of developments or information that has emerged since my last update.

Overall, I am a tool designed to assist users with various tasks involving natural language processing, but I am not capable of self-evaluation or independent thought.


So that was reassuring...




No MaryJo, I have never used ChatGPT myself, I prefer to continue to use what gifts I have in the way I always have. At 72 I am not too jazzed about learning how to use A.I. tech, although I consider it in the same category as encyclopedias, dictionaries and other reference works such as rhyming dictionaires and every now and then a Thesaurus.

A.I. certainly does compose melodies and probably even whole symphonies if properly trained. I guess I'm old school, I value the fact that I am hearing something no one else is and putting it into a form so that others can hear it, which is what A.I. does. And A.I. is sourcing past human output for its current output as well as using its training to decide which note and where, how long it lasts and how emphatic it is in relation to other notes, etc. These are almost automatic responses in a human composer's mind, based on what he has learned in the past and related to what he wants to compose in the present.

The UB mentions how drudgery numbs the mind and how the industrial revolution freed mankind in general from full-time survival mode and allowing him to consider philosophy and spiritual thoughts instead of repetitive labor. So many advocates bring that point up, saying that we will make much more progress because of that.

I think we're on a cusp of some kind, whether we are tottering on the bring of catastrophe or standing at the portal of a whole new stage in human development is yet to be seen. As Fritjof Capra brought out in the book "The Turning Point" major changes in human development have often been brought forth through calamity and catastrophe, so perhaps catastrophe will set the stage for a mighty leap forward towards Urantia becoming settled in light and life. The Authors don't seem to get overly excited about the rise and fall of entire civilizations as it is pretty much par for the course on evolutionary worlds.

I work in the localization business and A.I. has definitely made its presence felt in every facet of film dubbing from script translation to actual voice synthesis and cloning, with famous actors now able to deliver their lines in foreign languages with A.I. manipulated lip and jaw movement. The entire hierarchy of Hollywood is about to be severely shaken with the development of OpenAI's Sora text to video software. But I doubt if the world will suffer much because of that. Actors and writers can go on strike all they want, but they are only modern day Luddites left in the dust of the wheels of progress.

Definitely an interesting time to be living!


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Tramp Swan wrote:
So I'm starting a band called the Frandalanks. We write songs by request. And yes, we use loopers.


Wow, good point Tramp Swan! Although I knew of the Frandalanks I wasn't aware of the close resemblance! great


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I think one very fair use of machine learning is to train the machine to learn your very own material. If you are composing sophisticated long classical pieces, for example, it can take very many long hours to compose and orchestrate. Many masterpieces were years in the making and conception process.

If you have a distinct and original vision and style, wouldn't it make sense to allow a machine to help and to generate similar ideas which you can evaluate and modify to suit what you feel is the essence of what you wish to explore and communicate?


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Not an opinion...just a question:

If, as according to the Papers, art is the creative expression of an artist only, or primarily, as the experience of the artistic expression during that 'creation' expression, then is anything at all invented by AI possibly creative?

Hmmm.....

Is machine created sound actually 'music'?

Is an arrangement or rearrangement of mechanics truly creative?

Is art the personal expression of inspirational flow?

Can a mechanism be the recipient or source of truth or beauty or goodness....or creativity?

8)

195:7.22 (2080.7) The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation. Neither is the universe like the art of the artist, but rather like the striving, dreaming, aspiring, and advancing artist who seeks to transcend the world of material things in an effort to achieve a spiritual goal.

195:7.23 (2080.8) The scientist, not science, perceives the reality of an evolving and advancing universe of energy and matter. The artist, not art, demonstrates the existence of the transient morontia world intervening between material existence and spiritual liberty. The religionist, not religion, proves the existence of the spirit realities and divine values which are to be encountered in the progress of eternity.

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Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Feb 29, 2024 12:31 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
Not an opinion...just a question:

If, as according to the Papers, art is the creative expression of an artist only, or primarily, as the experience of the artistic expression during that 'creation' expression, then is anything at all invented by AI creative?

Hmmm.....

Is machine created sound actually 'music'?

Is an arrangement or rearrangement of mechanics truly creative?

Is art the personal expression of inspirational flow? Can a mechanism be the recipient or source of truth or beauty or goodness....or creativity?

8)

195:7.22 (2080.7) The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation. Neither is the universe like the art of the artist, but rather like the striving, dreaming, aspiring, and advancing artist who seeks to transcend the world of material things in an effort to achieve a spiritual goal.

195:7.23 (2080.8) The scientist, not science, perceives the reality of an evolving and advancing universe of energy and matter. The artist, not art, demonstrates the existence of the transient morontia world intervening between material existence and spiritual liberty. The religionist, not religion, proves the existence of the spirit realities and divine values which are to be encountered in the progress of eternity.


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pethuel wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Not an opinion...just a question:

If, as according to the Papers, art is the creative expression of an artist only, or primarily, as the experience of the artistic expression during that 'creation' expression, then is anything at all invented by AI creative?

Hmmm.....

Is machine created sound actually 'music'?

Is an arrangement or rearrangement of mechanics truly creative?

Is art the personal expression of inspirational flow? Can a mechanism be the recipient or source of truth or beauty or goodness....or creativity?

8)

195:7.22 (2080.7) The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation. Neither is the universe like the art of the artist, but rather like the striving, dreaming, aspiring, and advancing artist who seeks to transcend the world of material things in an effort to achieve a spiritual goal.

195:7.23 (2080.8) The scientist, not science, perceives the reality of an evolving and advancing universe of energy and matter. The artist, not art, demonstrates the existence of the transient morontia world intervening between material existence and spiritual liberty. The religionist, not religion, proves the existence of the spirit realities and divine values which are to be encountered in the progress of eternity.


Great quotes!

The creative process (for me, personally) is a quest. First comes a faint glimmer of an idea which I know by now to be that spark which precedes the inspiration, calling me, as it were, to get in tune and prepare to receive what's coming. It's a bit awe-inspiring (to not use the word "frightening" because sometimes the creative experience leaves me drained and exhausted and I never know where it is going to lead, but that "glimmer" I mentioned is brightest and most insistent when it is a song that will bring hope to others, more of a mission than a mere entertaining pop song. Sometimes I do write for genre but it is more like hack work than following inspiration. If I can transmit supernal ideas and goals to others, or if I can plant seed in receptive soil in some way, if I can record those ideas in a "listener friendly" way and make sure it is placed somewhere where some pilgrim of time can benefit from it, then I believe I am obeying my calling and fulfilling part of my mission. So it is a personal need, sort of a "woe unto me if I preach not the gospel" type of feeling regarding songwriting and I can't see A.I. filling that role effectively. But as a tool to help get from point A to point B perhaps A.I. is useful in fleshing out ideas, etc. but I don't like to work that way, I feel like I am betraying my gift if I don't do the pick and shovel work of creating a song. However for someone who cranks out music for a living and depends on speed and volume to keep food on the table it is valid and viable as a production method. The music industry is very demanding and holds the carrot of fame and fortune just out of reach. I am not interested in that part, been there and done that. Not that I'm oh so spiritual that those things don't influence me, but I am unwilling to pay that price to get where I want to go.


Those that do have artistic talents should use them, just as any other "ministry", be it teaching, or science or whatever. But personally, if I train A.I. to do the pick and shovel work then I lose the agony and the ecstacy of that part of the creative process. Like A.I. generated art, it is obviously not from the brush of a gifted painter, but it is something called up by someone with an interest in portraying an image or scene in their mind and feel that it is worth sharing. So like everything else in our mortal existence, it is a matter of personal choice.


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Apparently, true art cannot be mechanistic in origin. Or in its appreciation either. There is no value to discover in that which lacks mind, spirit, and personality. Art is not material. Even material art is not material nor do mechanism or materialism deliver values. Reformulation and regurgitation of human thought or art or literature or music is not creative...or artistic.

195:7.15 (2079.10) Art proves that man is not mechanistic, but it does not prove that he is spiritually immortal. Art is mortal morontia, the intervening field between man, the material, and man, the spiritual. Poetry is an effort to escape from material realities to spiritual values.

195:7.16 (2080.1) In a high civilization, art humanizes science, while in turn it is spiritualized by true religion—insight into spiritual and eternal values. Art represents the human and time-space evaluation of reality. .....

8)

5:4.4 (67.2) The domains of philosophy and art intervene between the nonreligious and the religious activities of the human self. Through art and philosophy the material-minded man is inveigled into the contemplation of the spiritual realities and universe values of eternal meanings.

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Riktare wrote:
=;
...If you have a distinct and original vision and style, wouldn't it make sense to allow a machine to help and to generate similar ideas which you can evaluate and modify to suit what you feel is the essence of what you wish to explore and communicate?

Definitely! That is what a multitrack recording platorm does, allowing you to build a song from an idea, finding a melody,_establishing an arrangement and then changing the arrangement, adding final touches of musical nuances, hooks and breaks and what have you.
But I prefer recording live, the combined creative energy is unmatched by any other method, there is spontaneity, there is life, there is a flow of energy in a live recording that personally I don't think A.I. can or will ever achieve.


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pethuel wrote:
Riktare wrote:
=;
...If you have a distinct and original vision and style, wouldn't it make sense to allow a machine to help and to generate similar ideas which you can evaluate and modify to suit what you feel is the essence of what you wish to explore and communicate?

Definitely! That is what a multitrack recording platorm does, allowing you to build a song from an idea, finding a melody,_establishing an arrangement and then changing the arrangement, adding final touches of musical nuances, hooks and breaks and what have you.
But I prefer recording live, the combined creative energy is unmatched by any other method, there is spontaneity, there is life, there is a flow of energy in a live recording that personally I don't think A.I. can or will ever achieve.


8)

56:4.2 (640.1) Personality inherently reaches out to unify all constituent realities. The infinite personality of the First Source and Center, the Universal Father, unifies all seven constituent Absolutes of Infinity; and the personality of mortal man, being an exclusive and direct bestowal of the Universal Father, likewise possesses the potential of unifying the constituent factors of the mortal creature. Such unifying creativity of all creature personality is a birthmark of its high and exclusive source and is further evidential of its unbroken contact with this same source through the personality circuit, by means of which the personality of the creature maintains direct and sustaining contact with the Father of all personality on Paradise.

8)

112:1.19 (1227.9) In aggregations parts are added; in systems parts are arranged. Systems are significant because of organization—positional values. In a good system all factors are in cosmic position. In a bad system something is either missing or displaced—deranged. In the human system it is the personality which unifies all activities and in turn imparts the qualities of identity and creativity.

8)

"Creative" is fascinating topic and inherent function of personality and selfhood. Living mind is faced by an endless stream (or torrent) of situations and circumstances and relationships and decisions that demand personality creativity to formulate responses to whatever happens wherever and whenever we may be.

Survival and growth and wisdom and avoidance of suffering and serving one another and the greater good all demand our creativity.

Art is the personalized expression of that creative struggle by the insights and inspirations received by our Deity Connections.

Or so I conclude and understand.

Perhaps AI, like computers and recorders, might serve as another instrument or mechanism or device for the creativity expressions of personality? But AI simply cannot be creative as defined in the Papers.

https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book/se ... &op=Search

111:4.12 (1221.1) Inner creativity contributes to ennoblement of character through personality integration and selfhood unification. It is forever true: The past is unchangeable; only the future can be changed by the ministry of the present creativity of the inner self.


8)

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It's difficult to judge the creativity aspect in music sometimes. Even one of the revelators characterized music as essentially being mathematics, right?

But of course, only certain aspects of music are mathematical, essentially... Note choice, meter, tempo and rhythm are some of them. But even in those cases, mathematics really only limits the creative possibilities if one makes certain assumptions or uses common conventions such as the 12 Tone Equal Temperament system (as a large part of modern Western music does).

Timbre and Orchestration are probably exceptions to being mathematical in nature. I suppose one could argue that morontia expressions are likely radically expanded in possibilities compared to physical parameters. It might be like stepping from a 3 dimensional viewpoint to a dozen or more dimensions of expression. We can remember that the standard form of communication in the celestial spheres is the "Pictograph" method. Or did I get the terminology wrong? That sort of implies parallels to the saying "a picture is worth a thousand words", doesn't it?

The spiritual realm, no doubt, radically increases the possible dimensions of creativity still - even up to infinite dimensionality, doesn't it?

One recent trend in music is the Eurorack phenomenon. Very often a "Eurorack" contains a percussion sound generator and one or more synthesizers or sound generators. Still more often embedded in the rack is one or more algorithmic event generators which have a random option with filtering capabilities that limit to generated events to a prescribed musical scale, tempo or rhythmic sequence. It can be an expensive hobby or even a means of entering a type of semi-pro performance arena. Some of the best recordings of this "artform" are pretty compelling in my opinion. The random or unpredictability aspect of art might be under appreciated. Careful and intentional pruning of randomness can yield beautiful results, as the Japanese Bonsai gardening practice demonstrates.

What Is Eurorack And Why Is It Popular?
https://pianoandsynth.com/what-is-eurorack-and-why-is-it-popular/


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