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Boomshuka: I understand your premise but, you make it sound so black and white, even an insane person is entitled to treatment and in Law, is entitled to some leeway and counsel. Even what I have underlined above reminds me of the Sanhedrin having convicted Jesus of sin and hung Him in plain view, as a sign to all others, on the cross but, yes in that case it was a gift.




It is black and white though, an insane person on urantia comes to this path usually threw genetics. In the spiritual world when a being becomes insane it is 100 percent always as a result of their own actions. Sin isn't decreed by a judgment on these worlds, sin is self destruction and suicide literally. He is noted as being very weak now and I don't have the quote infront of me but the book mentions his mind being being messed up as a result of his sins.

Anyone who is habitually embracing badness and is Iniquitous will show forth physical,spiritual and mindal signs of death. Iniquity has nothing to do with judgment, it is suicide. He can be given leeway untill eternity and that is why they mention these beings being offered rehabilitation because they have inflicted so much damage on themselves. They have twisted their own mind and personality by their own volition and no one made them do it. This is why Sin is not mysterious and something that courts do not need to decide. Sin is the very definition of suicide. It is a self induced intoxication.

He damaged an entire planet and by doing this his own mind and his own spirit has weakened he has hurt himself, it has nothing to do with judgment. He twisted his own connection to reality but aligning himself with unreality. It is possible that at this point he is unable to form any cohesive thoughts pertaining to reality.

I understand what you mean, but you are relating this to human beings. It is very difficult for human beings to become Iniqitous in this short life they would have to try very very hard to get to that state and be very bad almost every moment of every day. These beings have much more powefull minds and spirits they could achieve Iniqiuty with much more ease than could a human being and they also have more time to accomplish this. We also have a thought adjuster and material inertia which would help stop us from getting there even if we tried to be bad.

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67:1.3 In all the administrative work of a local universe no high trust is deemed more sacred than that reposed in a Planetary Prince who assumes responsibility for the welfare and guidance of the evolving mortals on a newly inhabited world. And of all forms of evil, none are more destructive of personality status than betrayal of trust and disloyalty to one’s confiding friends. In committing this deliberate sin, Caligastia so completely distorted his personality that his mind has never since been able fully to regain its equilibrium.


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Thanks Coop! That was the quote I was referring to. Obviously sin has destroyed him from the inside. There is no need to judge him when he is already walking around half dead from his own suicidal sins.

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loveofrightdoing


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That is a very important statement.
Even the gift of "Mind" can be corrupted by heavenly personalities.

So just how much easier it is for mortals of a lost relm to fall victim to distorted thinking that could bring one to a blinding path of self destruction.

I see so many powerful persons in history, statesmen, religious leaders, caregivers, and so-on that have done horrible thing to others all in the name of their twisted points of view.
Not to forget Suprimisist of every fashion that is out there.

And today we see an Elite class bending political structure to serve their ends with no regard to the moral out comes the rest of us will have to suffer.

Thinking, states of mind sets, are as important as wether you eat good food which builds and heals your body -vs- foods that poison and kill it.


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Despite my prior prayer and hope for their eventual rehabilitation and ability to receive mercy, I am not hopeful either. An ignorant mortal cannot or not easily twist themselves so knowingly for so long as Boom points out.

To J. Barry's points, I would suggest that the inherent lure of power is so corrupting - the more power any mortal has, the more corrupting its influence becomes. We all have power over others in many different ways. The nature of power is to protect itself, justify itself, and enlarge itself and power itself is indifferent to morality or consequences or the outcomes of those with less power. This corrupting potential of power is highly magnified in the careers of such as D & C. And remains a challenge for those of us mere mortals who are also given this "tool" to learn how to create good with it vs. the evil and sin it more easily results in.

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We have material intertia,cosmic ignorance, the thought adjuster and a very short lifespan that prevent us from going off the deep end. Etleast that is true for most of us lol certainly not everyone, as jesus said there are those with "dead mans bones". These spiritual beings do not have any of those factors that would keep them from self destruction.

Also I imagine on the morontia world that the stakes are much higher for us mortals as we don't have ignorance, and material inertia.

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Well they did not live very long in the flesh and returned to their spiritual forms fairly quickly. Cut them slack? They wanted to get rid of human ascension. They are personally responsible for the suffering of the human race on earth for the entire history of mankind up untill their rebellion.

Also these beings are millions of years old some likely billions if not older, they knew what they doing. Their bodys while they were in the flesh where very perfect.

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Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
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loveofrightdoing


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Fantastic Topic....

Has it ever occurred to anyone else that because we Urantia humans living in extremely difficult times are experiencing something profound enough that in the eternal future, we might be called upon as an individual or group to help the celestial world ward off serious implications of individuals who wish to go astray?

If we did not become aware and trained here on Urantia to stand faithful in spite of any or all things evil, how could we ever help our celestial brethren when they might use our skills the most?

When I pray, I personally ask that I be given the opportunity to help in any situation on the Mansion Worlds and beyond. To many, a very strange prayer request, but in truth, I would be first to volunteer my skills born of human experience to help the Celestial world when requested.

For 39 years, my faith has been increasing to do the Fathers Will, and with loving respect, I shall do what is commanded or requested of me. That is of course you do not count taking chocolate from me. [ smiling ]


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...The Melchizedeks now teach that the good resulting from the Satania rebellion is more than a thousand times the sum of all the evil.... (619:3) 54:6.6


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Please correct me...but wasn't Urantia an "experimental" sphere from its inception? The defaults did not make it so and being so did not influence or encourage default. It was the biology and chemistry that was the source of experimentation??

And to JB's point about the Mind potential for corruption....even those so called TUB students (they can't be believers due to their heretical prostitution, self deceptions, and/or vile manipulations of others) who receive and "share" messages from "above".... I just read a passage that almost ALL TAs have a journey of experiential DECENDENCY equal to the mortal's experiential ascendency prior to true communication and ultimate/potential fusion....they lack the skill and experience even if we were so special.

If you're hearing voices, one thing is for sure....they are either delusion or self created (yeah still delusional). One would be wise to keep such to yourself for a TUB believer knows better....you're just embarrasing yourself. Don't care if you think they're demons, ghosts, angels, the TA, God himself, or the Holy Spirit...it just ain't so. That is not to say there is not communication or personal revelation or affirmations but even such as these are seldom articulate in any way to the mortal mind or ear....you're/we're just not that special.....not yet and not for a few millenia more.

Whyever they're here, D and C have no power. Their boss is in isolation and they are not....and yet they are for they are without power or audience, a display IMO of the patience of mercy extension prior to final judgement and termination as though they never were. Both of those facts would get my attention!! Fair warning of potential consequences and love's evidence to billions of trillions of God's created and evolved ones on all the spheres. Personally, I'm with Boom - Good Riddence (God forgive me). Peace.

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''If you're hearing voices, one thing is for sure....they are either delusion or self created (yeah still delusional). One would be wise to keep such to yourself for a TUB believer knows better....you're just embarrasing yourself. Don't care if you think they're demons, ghosts, angels, the TA, God himself, or the Holy Spirit...it just ain't so. That is not to say there is not communication or personal revelation or affirmations but even such as these are seldom articulate in any way to the mortal mind or ear....you're/we're just not that special.....not yet and not for a few millenia more.''

AMEN To That Fanofvan 8)

196:0.10 Jesus brought to God, as a man of the realm, the greatest of all offerings: the consecration and dedication of his own will to the majestic service of doing the divine will. Jesus always and consistently interpreted religion wholly in terms of the Father’s will. When you study the career of the Master, as concerns prayer or any other feature of the religious life, look not so much for what he taught as for what he did. Jesus never prayed as a religious duty. To him prayer was a sincere expression of spiritual attitude, a declaration of soul loyalty, a recital of personal devotion, an expression of thanksgiving, an avoidance of emotional tension, a prevention of conflict, an exaltation of intellection, an ennoblement of desire, a vindication of moral decision, an enrichment of thought, an invigoration of higher inclinations, a consecration of impulse, a clarification of viewpoint, a declaration of faith, a transcendental surrender of will, a sublime assertion of confidence, a revelation of courage, the proclamation of discovery, a confession of supreme devotion, the validation of consecration, a technique for the adjustment of difficulties, and the mighty mobilization of the combined soul powers to withstand all human tendencies toward selfishness, evil, and sin. He lived just such a life of prayerful consecration to the doing of his Father’s will and ended his life triumphantly with just such a prayer.

The secret of his unparalleled religious life was this consciousness of the presence of God; and he attained it by intelligent prayer and sincere worship — unbroken communion with God — and not by leadings, voices, visions, or extraordinary religious practices.


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Amy wrote:
Why was Caligastia left here?

What an interesting thread. Seems very pertinent these days. It really got me thinking. So I did some digging and I'd like to share some of my thoughts.

I'll start here:

93:4.6 - The seven commandments promulgated by Melchizedek were patterned along the lines of the ancient Dalamatian supreme law and very much resembled the seven commands taught in the first and second Edens. 

Here is the third of those seven commandments:

93.4.9 - You shall not bear false witness.

It's interesting to note that the commandment against bearing false witness is near the bottom of the list of the traditional 10 commandments we think of today. But originally it came before the commandments against killing (murder), stealing, adultery, and showing disrespect to one's elders. I have always thought that telling a lie, of all of the sins that can be committed, is the worst of all.

Here is something that I think is a major factor in what happened with Lucifer:

84:8.2 - ...pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.

When Lucifer indulged himself to proclaim that the Father did not exist, he was bearing false witness. Was it pleasurable for him to do that? If that was the case then it certainly did threaten, if not destroy his family home. His home and our home. A system of worlds inhabited by many of his children.

And now onto Caligastia and Daligastia.

It appears that for them and their celestial rebel followers, the day of Pentecost was their day of reckoning. It was game over. They we're all removed from the planet except Cal and Dal.

I think this is why they were left here:

53:8.9 - Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

Impotent meaning powerless. Except for this:

53:8.6 - Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

So whatever they were able to do before, they can't do those things anymore right?

Here's something very interesting about what the revelators said about Cal and Dal that I never noticed before:

53:8.7 - But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

ser·vile
1. having or showing an excessive willingness to serve or please others.
"he bowed his head in a servile manner"
2. of or characteristic of a slave or slaves.
"the servile condition of the peasants"
Similar adjectives:
obsequious, sycophantic, excessively deferential, subservient, humble

54:3.3 - But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers.

I don't know. Have we been looking at them incorrectly? Are they actually more or less on their knees? Being forced to look first at the circumstances of the triumph of Jesus and second at the consequences of their failures? Consequences playing out now in all our lives? All because of simply not paying attention to the importance of the commandment of never bearing false witness?


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Greetings nodAmanaV!

From time to time I ponder this too. The passage 54:3.3 seems to offer an important take on the situation, thanks.

I can add that we hear that Caligastia turned his head when The Master was crucified, right? That means that within him, at least some bit of civilized discretion and appreciation for propriety or even justice must have existed. It seems the wise rulers of the cosmos might want to hear an honest confession from each of the traitors and possibly calculate that the odds of finally obtaining that are reasonable.

An honest confession would conceivably come hand-in-hand with the traitors' own freewill choice to become extinct rather than be force-ably terminated. In that situation no judgement on the part of the Ancients of Days would be needed and justice would be carried without force.


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