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I received an e-mail from the Urantia Association with several articles included. One "The Ideological Struggle" caught my eye

https://urantia-association.org/the-ide ... more-52675

"Those who stand on Michael’s side can do a great service by promoting true liberty and exposing license through our words and conduct. Ask yourself:

Am I fair in my dealings with others?
Do I live by the same rules I expect of others?
Do I respect time and space by not violating divine laws to effect my objectives?
Am I willing to call out license when I see it?"

This last phrase (in red) left me a little uneasy.
Would anyone care to comment?


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Isn't "license" false liberty? Unfairness? Unrighteous dominion?

Was the Master indifferent or silent regarding such "license"?

Jesus did not support passivity in the face of misbehavior and always acted in service to protecting others and reducing suffering.

"If you see something, say something." A rational recommendation by those who wish to serve the greater good for the greatest number!

(1891.1) 173:1.11 This cleansing of the temple discloses the Master’s attitude toward commercializing the practices of religion as well as his detestation of all forms of unfairness and profiteering at the expense of the poor and the unlearned. This episode also demonstrates that Jesus did not look with approval upon the refusal to employ force to protect the majority of any given human group against the unfair and enslaving practices of unjust minorities who may be able to entrench themselves behind political, financial, or ecclesiastical power. Shrewd, wicked, and designing men are not to be permitted to organize themselves for the exploitation and oppression of those who, because of their idealism, are not disposed to resort to force for self-protection or for the furtherance of their laudable life projects.

8)

Excellent article!

Evolutionary progress is a result or process of conflict and competition. Superior reality perspective results in social progress. The Golden Rule will not prevail in a vacuum but rather by its proactive support and articulation I think.

Graciousness is an important ideal. But it is not the only ideal or, perhaps, the more valuable ideal either. Silence is an apathetic acquiescence to injustice and inequity and false liberty.

My opinion. 8)

From the article:

"Some may view taking such a stand as being too controversial – maybe even judgmental. But what we would be judging are theories and ideas, not people. The judging of ideas and theories is part and parcel of any ideological struggle. It really cannot be avoided. True liberty and false liberty cannot peacefully co-exist. One will prevail and one must be defeated. In the heavens, this is called “war.” And there will be casualties.

Unnecessary Delay
Then there is the matter of justice. When we think of the tremendous damage that has been caused by the rebellion, and the many ways we continue to suffer, it is understandable that we would long for the annihilation of the arch rebels. But could it be that we have a share in the delay? Could our actions or inaction be contributing to the delay?

This question arises because of what is recorded in Paper 54:

. . . . the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers. (54:3.3, 615.5 emphasis added)

Consider also what is recorded about Satan in Paper 43:

Since the triumph of Christ, all Norlatiadek is being cleansed of sin and rebels. Sometime before Michael’s death in the flesh, the fallen Lucifer’s associate, Satan, sought to attend such an Edentia conclave, but the solidification of sentiment against the archrebels had reached the point where the doors of sympathy were so well-nigh universally closed that there could be found no standing ground for the Satania adversaries. When there exists no open door for the reception of evil, there exists no opportunity for the entertainment of sin. The doors of the hearts of all Edentia closed against Satan; he was unanimously rejected by the assembled System Sovereigns, and it was at this time that the Son of Man “beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.” (43:4.9, 490.4 emphasis added)

From this, we can infer that until the Luciferian concepts are wholly rejected on our world, the Ancients of Days may refrain from annihilating the rebels. Thus, a delay in exposing the poisonous proclamations of Lucifer may prolong our planetary agony.

It is obvious that a large part of our society consciously or unconsciously adopts, sympathizes, or tolerates Luciferian ideas. And it seems that many people are not aware of what is in play on our world. Luciferian ideas are stitched into our government, our entertainment, our culture. Even our religious and so-called spiritual ideologies are unwittingly falling under the influence of Luciferian ideas, just as did millions of angels, and celestial beings.

But where is the counterbalance to all of this? Who is standing on the Father’s side showing the error of these ideas? Practically the entire readership in the Urantia Book community bear the banner of Michael – the three azure blue circles on a white background. We post it on nearly all of our websites and social media. We wear it on our clothing and jewelry. But do we understand the implications?

Bearing that standard means we are on Michael’s side of the controversy. We are not mere bystanders and onlookers. We are the ones with the knowledge and understanding of the depth and the breadth of the rebellion. We know its origin and we know its destiny.

It is therefore incumbent upon all who bear the standard to make the truth known with respect to the ideological struggle. We should not limit our discussions to cosmology. We cannot passively co-exist with Luciferian ideas. We must take a real stand on Michael’s side of the controversy, until the struggle is won, and the rebellious ideas are wholly and completely rejected.

What can you do to take a stand on Michael’s side of the ideological struggle? How can you hasten the rejection of Luciferian ideas?"


Me here: Very thought provoking. So relevant here, at this classroom and study group...can or should such a place be without contention, conflict, disagreement, and dispute?

Hmmm...very interesting indeed.

8)

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Last edited by fanofVan on Thu May 11, 2023 6:56 pm +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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But is the author suggesting public exposure of Luciferian B.S.?

Debate and dissension are perhaps inevitable in any social situation, but unkind and cutting remarks and snide criticisms are unloving behavior aren't they? Fortunately it has been a while since I have seen that here.

I am a very small and very young tadpole


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I wonder...is silent acquiescence loving behavior? Is ineloquence or perceived rudeness less loving than silence? Must the enemies of fascism, for example, be so politely?

Jesus provides a great ideal. But silence is no part of his example either...loving or otherwise I do not think.

Perhaps the actual resistance and objection to false liberty is more urgent and more important than its form?

I think the article and author also support grace and style along with verbalization and articulation. It is my personal opinion that formatting is secondary to actual action and the active objection to license and false liberty.

But silent tolerance of such evil only perpetuates it.

8)

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Ms. Reed writes in the article: "From this, we can infer that until the Luciferian concepts are wholly rejected on our world, the Ancients of Days may refrain from annihilating the rebels. Thus, a delay in exposing the poisonous proclamations of Lucifer may prolong our planetary agony.

It is obvious that a large part of our society consciously or unconsciously adopts, sympathizes, or tolerates Luciferian ideas. And it seems that many people are not aware of what is in play on our world. Luciferian ideas are stitched into our government, our entertainment, our culture. Even our religious and so-called spiritual ideologies are unwittingly falling under the influence of Luciferian ideas, just as did millions of angels, and celestial beings."

Me here: Personally I am not sot so sure we can "infer" such a proposition. At least such a claim oversimplifies the normal planetary evolutionary struggles with false liberty...which is also a function of egoism and materialism and selfishness and is truly a result of self-importance I think.

The Mortal Epochs leading to planetary destiny of Light and Life takes hundreds of thousands, even millions of years without the effects of rebellion and/or default. See Paper 52.

Evolutionary progress and maturity and wisdom and the brotherhood of humanity takes much time and has many obstacles. But certainly does social progress come only by overcoming all such obstacles. Suffering in silence without resistance hardly seems effective.

8)

(610.5) 53:8.9 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

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And yet...the rebellion and default has certainly complicated and, perhaps, delayed Urantia's planetary progress.

(382.1) 34:7.1 The flesh, the inherent nature derived from the animal-origin races, does not naturally bear the fruits of the divine Spirit. When the mortal nature has been upstepped by the addition of the nature of the Material Sons of God, as the Urantia races were in a measure advanced by the bestowal of Adam, then is the way better prepared for the Spirit of Truth to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster to bring forth the beautiful harvest of the character fruits of the spirit. If you do not reject this spirit, even though eternity may be required to fulfill the commission, “he will guide you into all truth.”

(382.2) 34:7.2 Evolutionary mortals inhabiting normal worlds of spiritual progress do not experience the acute conflicts between the spirit and the flesh which characterize the present-day Urantia races. But even on the most ideal planets, pre-Adamic man must put forth positive efforts to ascend from the purely animalistic plane of existence up through successive levels of increasingly intellectual meanings and higher spiritual values.

(382.3) 34:7.3 The mortals of a normal world do not experience constant warfare between their physical and spiritual natures. They are confronted with the necessity of climbing up from the animal levels of existence to the higher planes of spiritual living, but this ascent is more like undergoing an educational training when compared with the intense conflicts of Urantia mortals in this realm of the divergent material and spiritual natures.

(382.4) 34:7.4 The Urantia peoples are suffering the consequences of a double deprivation of help in this task of progressive planetary spiritual attainment. The Caligastia upheaval precipitated world-wide confusion and robbed all subsequent generations of the moral assistance which a well-ordered society would have provided. But even more disastrous was the Adamic default in that it deprived the races of that superior type of physical nature which would have been more consonant with spiritual aspirations.

(382.5) 34:7.5 Urantia mortals are compelled to undergo such marked struggling between the spirit and the flesh because their remote ancestors were not more fully Adamized by the Edenic bestowal. It was the divine plan that the mortal races of Urantia should have had physical natures more naturally spirit responsive.

(382.6) 34:7.6 Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment, present-day mortals would experience less of this apparent warfare between the flesh and the spirit if they would enter the spirit kingdom, wherein the faith sons of God enjoy comparative deliverance from the slave-bondage of the flesh in the enlightened and liberating service of wholehearted devotion to doing the will of the Father in heaven. Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”

(383.1) 34:7.7 Those God-knowing men and women who have been born of the Spirit experience no more conflict with their mortal natures than do the inhabitants of the most normal of worlds, planets which have never been tainted with sin nor touched by rebellion. Faith sons work on intellectual levels and live on spiritual planes far above the conflicts produced by unrestrained or unnatural physical desires. The normal urges of animal beings and the natural appetites and impulses of the physical nature are not in conflict with even the highest spiritual attainment except in the minds of ignorant, mistaught, or unfortunately overconscientious persons.

8)

But...still....our planetary rulers on this Shrine of Nebadon certainly have implemented Plan B with ferocious resolve. Michael came to us and personally delivered the Spirit of Truth and the flood of Father Fragments to our world. An amazing acceleration of social cause for great effects.

Perhaps our losses have become our gains?

But religionists cannot be idle...or silent...as truth, beauty, and goodness must be expressed to actually be experienced.

I think the Jesusonian Way is that of social activism. Speaking up and speaking out in service to the greater good for the greatest number and as we walk by in service to others. To reduce suffering, we must reduce the causes of suffering.

More opinions...

8)

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Fortunately I have very little contact with Luciferian types, people who are obviously on "the other team" both in word and deed, Even though I am a working musician and have regular contact with the denizens of the night, Luciferian types are rare. Most people are laid back except in election season. Sometimes in my conversations with folks someone will lay out the typical hippie I'm God, you're God, everybody's God lines, but I see more of a seeker than a Luciferian in most of them. It is easy to respond with some seed sowing and telling them about the Father fragments.

I have met darker types (spiritually speaking) who have tried to intimidate me with their powers, but their attempts are usually laughable, except for one, and he could definitely walk the walk and talk the talk.

And musically, from the stage and in my own compositions, I do my best to sow seeds of faith. I don't agree with public arguments about "soccer, politics and religion" as they say here in Brazil, because people are affected less by what you are saying, and more by how well you argue. However in intimate groups it is a very different story, where people want to hear, they have a spiritual hunger and long to be satisfied. And happily I have never had to deal with a Luciferian in those kind of situations, they don't usually socialize with spiritually minded people.

Crowley was an actual apostle of darkness, and yes, he attracted a lot of followers in the British rock world, Peter Greene was a notable example amongst many others. But more insidious in my opinion are the wolves in sheep's clothing that you find in the pulpits of some mainstream denominations.

But public ministry doesn't get it in my opinion, at least not public evangelisation type and that is where I choked a bit on Zhonette's statement, wondering exactly what she is referring to. At the present time I think that does more harm than good. From my experience the daily, plodding one-heart-at-a-time method brings the best results.
FanofVan said:
"But religionists cannot be idle...or silent...as truth, beauty, and goodness must be expressed to actually be experienced.

I think the Jesusonian Way is that of social activism. Speaking up and speaking out in service to the greater good for the greatest number and as we walk by in service to others. To reduce suffering, we must reduce the causes of suffering."

Do you mean proactively taking the Jesusonion Gospel to the streets, airways and internet in the mass media?

Thanks for your comments!


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"Do you mean proactively taking the Jesusonion Gospel to the streets, airways and internet in the mass media?"

No...not really. The world most needs hope, idealism, kindness, forgiveness, generosity, music, poetry, understanding, love...or truth, beauty, and goodness!!

It is the fruits of the Spirit that must be expressed, not sloganisms and doctrines or creeds or beliefs sanctimoniously imposed on others. The moral nature is pretty universal...as you suggest. We need only to to present and preserve that motivation and idealism...primarily.

Faith is an act, or it is not Faith at all. We must only, really, do good as we walk by to shine the light of truth...as I am certain you do!

Of course...the Jesusonian Gospel is simply the family of creation and the Golden Rule and a Divine origin and destiny. These beliefs are pretty universal by a majority of humanity already I think. The Spirit of Truth and the God Fragments are already at work today!!!

8)

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"It is the fruits of the Spirit that must be expressed, not sloganisms and doctrines or creeds or beliefs sanctimoniously imposed on others."
Exactly! Those tendencies are the very things I believe we need to avoid


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Quote:
"It is the fruits of the Spirit that must be expressed, not sloganisms and doctrines or creeds or beliefs sanctimoniously imposed on others."


Thanks for the great discussion of this article, which is a really good read.

I agree with this statement above. It is really another way of saying that we must, as Jesus advises, turn the other cheek. Not in a way that makes us a victim of evil, but in a way that is pro-actively Jesusonian. Pushing back against evil of any kind seems to be futile. But showing a better way is much more effective.

I think that most people are really good-intentioned. Like pethuel, I have never (I don't think) met someone who I would consider Luciferian. I see some of those types in the news, maybe, but when most people express iffy ideals or philosophies, it is usually just ignorance. We have to remember that we have been under the darkness of rebellion for hundreds of thousands of years. We have never known what "normal" looks like. This is still a primitive planet in many ways. Sometimes, the fruits of the spirit are is short supply in day-to-day life. But that's where we can get in there and shine a light. Sincere friendliness and genuine love will elevate just about any situation.

And sometimes, an opportunity presents itself where we might even be able to educate about our true history, and why there remains so much darkness in our world. I have found that sometimes, people are very interested in such discussions.

Thanks again for a great discussion here.


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Regarding being innocent as doves and yet wise as serpents, and the turning of cheeks....silent indulgence is certainly not Jesusonian.

(1770.1) 159:5.9 Jesus did not hesitate to appropriate the better half of a Scripture while he repudiated the lesser portion. His great exhortation, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” he took from the Scripture which reads: “You shall not take vengeance against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Jesus appropriated the positive portion of this Scripture while rejecting the negative part. He even opposed negative or purely passive nonresistance. Said he: “When an enemy smites you on one cheek, do not stand there dumb and passive but in positive attitude turn the other; that is, do the best thing possible actively to lead your brother in error away from the evil paths into the better ways of righteous living.” Jesus required his followers to react positively and aggressively to every life situation. The turning of the other cheek, or whatever act that may typify, demands initiative, necessitates vigorous, active, and courageous expression of the believer’s personality.

(1770.2) 159:5.10 Jesus did not advocate the practice of negative submission to the indignities of those who might purposely seek to impose upon the practitioners of nonresistance to evil, but rather that his followers should be wise and alert in the quick and positive reaction of good to evil to the end that they might effectively overcome evil with good. Forget not, the truly good is invariably more powerful than the most malignant evil. The Master taught a positive standard of righteousness: “Whosoever wishes to be my disciple, let him disregard himself and take up the full measure of his responsibilities daily to follow me.” And he so lived himself in that “he went about doing good.” And this aspect of the gospel was well illustrated by many parables which he later spoke to his followers. He never exhorted his followers patiently to bear their obligations but rather with energy and enthusiasm to live up to the full measure of their human responsibilities and divine privileges in the kingdom of God.

(1770.3) 159:5.11 When Jesus instructed his apostles that they should, when one unjustly took away the coat, offer the other garment, he referred not so much to a literal second coat as to the idea of doing something positive to save the wrongdoer in the place of the olden advice to retaliate — “an eye for an eye” and so on. Jesus abhorred the idea either of retaliation or of becoming just a passive sufferer or victim of injustice. On this occasion he taught them the three ways of contending with, and resisting, evil:

(1770.4) 159:5.12 1. To return evil for evil — the positive but unrighteous method.

(1770.5) 159:5.13 2. To suffer evil without complaint and without resistance — the purely negative method.

(1770.6) 159:5.14 3. To return good for evil, to assert the will so as to become master of the situation, to overcome evil with good — the positive and righteous method.

8)

Wisdom cannot be expressed by silent indulgence in the name of passive politeness. Or Lucifer’s rebellion would have triumphed and evolutionary progress would not prevail. This, I think, is the point of the article. Progress must be earned. Truth and wisdom must find expression in the lives of faith children.

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More words of wisdom and instruction:

(1579.5) 140:8.3 Jesus made clear to the three the difference between the requirements of apostleship and discipleship. And even then he did not forbid the exercise of prudence and foresight by the twelve. What he preached against was not forethought but anxiety, worry. He taught the active and alert submission to God’s will. In answer to many of their questions regarding frugality and thriftiness, he simply called attention to his life as carpenter, boatmaker, and fisherman, and to his careful organization of the twelve. He sought to make it clear that the world is not to be regarded as an enemy; that the circumstances of life constitute a divine dispensation working along with the children of God.

(1579.6) 140:8.4 Jesus had great difficulty in getting them to understand his personal practice of nonresistance. He absolutely refused to defend himself, and it appeared to the apostles that he would be pleased if they would pursue the same policy. He taught them not to resist evil, not to combat injustice or injury, but he did not teach passive tolerance of wrongdoing. And he made it plain on this afternoon that he approved of the social punishment of evildoers and criminals, and that the civil government must sometimes employ force for the maintenance of social order and in the execution of justice.

(1579.7) 140:8.5 He never ceased to warn his disciples against the evil practice of retaliation; he made no allowance for revenge, the idea of getting even. He deplored the holding of grudges. He disallowed the idea of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. He discountenanced the whole concept of private and personal revenge, assigning these matters to civil government, on the one hand, and to the judgment of God, on the other. He made it clear to the three that his teachings applied to the individual, not the state. He summarized his instructions up to that time regarding these matters, as:

(1580.1) 140:8.6 Love your enemies — remember the moral claims of human brotherhood.

(1580.2) 140:8.7 The futility of evil: A wrong is not righted by vengeance. Do not make the mistake of fighting evil with its own weapons.

(1580.3) 140:8.8 Have faith — confidence in the eventual triumph of divine justice and eternal goodness.

8)

(1589.6) 141:3.5 Jesus of Nazareth was indeed a strong and forceful personality; he was an intellectual power and a spiritual stronghold. His personality not only appealed to the spiritually minded women among his followers, but also to the educated and intellectual Nicodemus and to the hardy Roman soldier, the captain stationed on guard at the cross, who, when he had finished watching the Master die, said, “Truly, this was a Son of God.” And red-blooded, rugged Galilean fishermen called him Master.

(1590.1) 141:3.6 The pictures of Jesus have been most unfortunate. These paintings of the Christ have exerted a deleterious influence on youth; the temple merchants would hardly have fled before Jesus if he had been such a man as your artists usually have depicted. His was a dignified manhood; he was good, but natural. Jesus did not pose as a mild, sweet, gentle, and kindly mystic. His teaching was thrillingly dynamic. He not only meant well, but he went about actually doing good.

(1590.2) 141:3.7 The Master never said, “Come to me all you who are indolent and all who are dreamers.” But he did many times say, “Come to me all you who labor, and I will give you rest — spiritual strength.” The Master’s yoke is, indeed, easy, but even so, he never imposes it; every individual must take this yoke of his own free will.

(1590.3) 141:3.8 Jesus portrayed conquest by sacrifice, the sacrifice of pride and selfishness. By showing mercy, he meant to portray spiritual deliverance from all grudges, grievances, anger, and the lust for selfish power and revenge. And when he said, “Resist not evil,” he later explained that he did not mean to condone sin or to counsel fraternity with iniquity. He intended the more to teach forgiveness, to “[b]resist not evil treatment of one’s personality, evil injury to one’s feelings of personal dignity.”

8)

Apparently, Jesus did teach us to "push back against evil"!!! That push back is to be an active response that mitigates and redirects such error as false liberty, license, and unrighteous dominion.

He did also teach us to not take it personally or act out of personal insult or injury. And to be cheerful. I remember that Jesus was also indignant toward and intolerant of certain behaviors and in certain circumstances too.

A most interesting topic...

8)

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This poem by Edgar Guest sums it up pretty well I think.

Sermons We See
by
Edgar Guest


Next

I'd rather see a sermon than hear one any day;
I'd rather one should walk with me than merely tell the way.
The eye's a better pupil and more willing than the ear,
Fine counsel is confusing, but example's always clear;
And the best of all the preachers are the men who live their creeds,
For to see good put in action is what everybody needs.

I soon can learn to do it if you'll let me see it done;
I can watch your hands in action, but your tongue too fast may run.
And the lecture you deliver may be very wise and true,
But I'd rather get my lessons by observing what you do;
For I might misunderstand you and the high advice you give,
But there's no misunderstanding how you act and how you live.

When I see a deed of kindness, I am eager to be kind.
When a weaker brother stumbles and a strong man stays behind
Just to see if he can help him, then the wish grows strong in me
To become as big and thoughtful as I know that friend to be.
And all travelers can witness that the best of guides today
Is not the one who tells them, but the one who shows the way.

One good man teaches many, men believe what they behold;
One deed of kindness noticed is worth forty that are told.
Who stands with men of honor learns to hold his honor dear,
For right living speaks a language which to every one is clear.
Though an able speaker charms me with his eloquence, I say,
I'd rather see a sermon than to hear one, any day.


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Apparently, Jesus did teach us to "push back against evil"!!! That push back is to be an active response that mitigates and redirects such error as false liberty, license, and unrighteous dominion.

He did also teach us to not take it personally or act out of personal insult or injury. And to be cheerful. I remember that Jesus was also indignant toward and intolerant of certain behaviors and in certain circumstances too.

A most interesting topic...

8)[/quote]

Thanks! Would you care to elaborate on "unrighteous dominion"?


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Bradly wrote: "Apparently, Jesus did teach us to "push back against evil"!!! That push back is to be an active response that mitigates and redirects such error as false liberty, license, and unrighteous dominion.

He did also teach us to not take it personally or act out of personal insult or injury. And to be cheerful. I remember that Jesus was also indignant toward and intolerant of certain behaviors and in certain circumstances too.

A most interesting topic..."

8)


pethuel replied: "Thanks! Would you care to elaborate on "unrighteous dominion"?"

8)

Me here: Sure...the imposition of personal will against another's freewill by force or intimidation or deception or guile or charm or any form of domination. Jesus challenged the priesthood and money changers and the wealthy who imposed unrighteous dominion over others.

Bullies. Locally and recently here, the Jan 6th mob of traitors who attempted the overthrow of democracy and constitutional process. Capitalists who pursue profits against the greater good for the greatest number. Self interest.

Such unrighteous dominion is to be resisted and objected to and eliminated by ethics, morality, and the Golden Rule....the family interest.

A study of false liberty is most relevant I think.

8)

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"Live loyally today—grow—and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole."


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon May 15, 2023 9:50 am +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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