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Paper 75 - The Default of Adam and Eve
75:5:2 (843.4) It was in the despair of the realization of failure that Adam, the day after Eve’s misstep, sought out Laotta, the brilliant Nodite woman who was head of the western schools of the Garden, and with premeditation committed the folly of Eve. But do not misunderstand; Adam was not beguiled; he knew exactly what he was about; he deliberately chose to share the fate of Eve. He loved his mate with a supermortal affection, and the thought of the possibility of a lonely vigil on Urantia without her was more than he could endure.


Although I will admit that perhaps there couldn't be a more difficult situation to withstand than what happened when Adam decided to do what he did because of his love for Eve. But I wonder, what would have happened and what would the world be like, if Adam had not gone and sought out Laotta that day?


Quote:
Paper 48 - The Morontia Life
Section 6. Morontia World Seraphim—Transition Ministers
48:6:36 (555.4) Even as mortals, so have these angels been father to many disappointments, and they will point out that sometimes your most disappointing disappointments have become your greatest blessings. Sometimes the planting of a seed necessitates its death, the death of your fondest hopes, before it can be reborn to bear the fruits of new life and new opportunity. And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.
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nodAmanaV wrote:
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Paper 75 - The Default of Adam and Eve


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Although I will admit that perhaps there couldn't be a more difficult situation to withstand than what happened when Adam decided to do what he did because of his love for Eve. But I wonder, what would have happened and what would the world be like, if Adam had not gone and sought out Laotta that day?


Interesting question. Maybe Jerusem would have sent a replacement when Eve died or was removed. I don't think he would have ruled alone for 200,000 years.

.

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How many millions of years were these two a couple? How many children do they share??

What a demonstration of loyalty to Eve! Still united in eternal service! I think Adam exhibited great courage and nobility and with complete trust and faith in God's mercy and friendly universe.

Perhaps Adam's abandonment of Eve would be far worse? Wouldn't that be self serving and a betrayal?

Eve did not rebel, she errored from impatience. God forgives. So did Adam. A chivalrous act. Heroic even.

8)

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Yes, Adam's loyalty to Eve is admirable. But what about his loyalty to God?
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nodAmanaV wrote:
Yes, Adam's loyalty to Eve is admirable. But what about his loyalty to God?


How is Adam's loyalty to Eve disloyalty to God? You are accusing Adam of sin? Or rebellion?

Weird. :?:

75:1.6 (840.2) Probably no Material Sons of Nebadon were ever faced with such a difficult and seemingly hopeless task as confronted Adam and Eve in the sorry plight of Urantia. But they would have sometime met with success had they been more farseeing and patient. Both of them, especially Eve, were altogether too impatient; they were not willing to settle down to the long, long endurance test. They wanted to see some immediate results, and they did, but the results thus secured proved most disastrous both to themselves and to their world.

75:5.1 (843.3) Eve’s disillusionment was truly pathetic. Adam discerned the whole predicament and, while heartbroken and dejected, entertained only pity and sympathy for his erring mate.

75:5.2 (843.4) It was in the despair of the realization of failure that Adam, the day after Eve’s misstep, sought out Laotta, the brilliant Nodite woman who was head of the western schools of the Garden, and with premeditation committed the folly of Eve. But do not misunderstand; Adam was not beguiled; he knew exactly what he was about; he deliberately chose to share the fate of Eve. He loved his mate with a supermortal affection, and the thought of the possibility of a lonely vigil on Urantia without her was more than he could endure.

:(

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What about Adam's loyalty (duty) to their children?
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nodAmanaV wrote:
What about Adam's loyalty (duty) to their children?


His children? He was disloyal to God...and his children?

This then is your opinion and claim?

Hmmmm.....

And yet they were selected as 2 of the 24 Counselors.

Your assertions and criticism and innuendo seem misplaced.

But that's just another opinion.

:-s

75:6.3 (844.5) The Edenic caravan was halted on the third day out from the Garden by the arrival of the seraphic transports from Jerusem. And for the first time Adam and Eve were informed of what was to become of their children. While the transports stood by, those children who had arrived at the age of choice (twenty years) were given the option of remaining on Urantia with their parents or of becoming wards of the Most Highs of Norlatiadek. Two thirds chose to go to Edentia; about one third elected to remain with their parents. All children of prechoice age were taken to Edentia. No one could have beheld the sorrowful parting of this Material Son and Daughter and their children without realizing that the way of the transgressor is hard. These offspring of Adam and Eve are now on Edentia; we do not know what disposition is to be made of them.

75:7.1 (845.1) It was while the Edenic caravan was halted that Adam and Eve were informed of the nature of their transgressions and advised concerning their fate. Gabriel appeared to pronounce judgment. And this was the verdict: The Planetary Adam and Eve of Urantia are adjudged in default; they have violated the covenant of their trusteeship as the rulers of this inhabited world.

75:7.2 (845.2) While downcast by the sense of guilt, Adam and Eve were greatly cheered by the announcement that their judges on Salvington had absolved them from all charges of standing in “contempt of the universe government.” They had not been held guilty of rebellion.

75:7.3 (845.3) The Edenic pair were informed that they had degraded themselves to the status of the mortals of the realm; that they must henceforth conduct themselves as man and woman of Urantia, looking to the future of the world races for their future.

76:6.1 (853.2) Adam and Eve went to their mortal rest with strong faith in the promises made to them by the Melchizedeks that they would sometime awake from the sleep of death to resume life on the mansion worlds, worlds all so familiar to them in the days preceding their mission in the material flesh of the violet race on Urantia.

76:6.2 (853.3) They did not long rest in the oblivion of the unconscious sleep of the mortals of the realm. On the third day after Adam’s death, the second following his reverent burial, the orders of Lanaforge, sustained by the acting Most High of Edentia and concurred in by the Union of Days on Salvington, acting for Michael, were placed in Gabriel’s hands, directing the special roll call of the distinguished survivors of the Adamic default on Urantia. And in accordance with this mandate of special resurrection, number twenty-six of the Urantia series, Adam and Eve were repersonalized and reassembled in the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds of Satania together with 1,316 of their associates in the experience of the first garden. Many other loyal souls had already been translated at the time of Adam’s arrival, which was attended by a dispensational adjudication of both the sleeping survivors and of the living qualified ascenders.

76:6.3 (853.4) Adam and Eve quickly passed through the worlds of progressive ascension until they attained citizenship on Jerusem, once again to be residents of the planet of their origin but this time as members of a different order of universe personalities. They left Jerusem as permanent citizens—Sons of God; they returned as ascendant citizens—sons of man. They were immediately attached to the Urantia service on the system capital, later being assigned membership among the four and twenty counselors who constitute the present advisory-control body of Urantia.

76:6.4 (854.1) And thus ends the story of the Planetary Adam and Eve of Urantia, a story of trial, tragedy, and triumph, at least personal triumph for your well-meaning but deluded Material Son and Daughter and undoubtedly, in the end, a story of ultimate triumph for their world and its rebellion-tossed and evil-harassed inhabitants. When all is summed up, Adam and Eve made a mighty contribution to the speedy civilization and accelerated biologic progress of the human race. They left a great culture on earth, but it was not possible for such an advanced civilization to survive in the face of the early dilution and the eventual submergence of the Adamic inheritance. It is the people who make a civilization; civilization does not make the people.

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I'm just asking questions. I'm not making any insinuations.

Yes, they are both on the council of 24. That says a lot. It shows that mercy in our universe is certainly lavish (15:14.2).

Material Sons and Daughters apparently, like us, are not perfect and can make mistakes. But my question is this: Could Adam have not decided to take the same path as Eve? In other words, not knowing if it ever occurs somewhere in the universe that an Adam and Eve, due to some accident or other mishap ends up alone, was it a given that one or the other could not continue without their mate? Another way of putting it, was it God's will that Adam suffer the same plight as Eve? Could he have continued on alone? I mean there certainly are many of us humans who lose their mate and continue on. In that regard, if Adam had decided to continue without joining Eve in personal default, would things have been different? Was it possible for Adam to do that ? Would that have benefited their children? Would their children have been allowed to stay on planet? And would that have benefited us? as well as both of them in the long run of the eternal future?

I say all this in regard to what the papers say about what we can expect is something we will need to consider about how to handle life's sorrow and disappointment when we arrive on the mansion worlds.

Quote:
Paper 48 - The Morontia Life
48:6:36 (555.4) And from them you will learn to suffer less through sorrow and disappointment, first, by making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities, and then, by accepting your lot when you have faithfully performed your duty.


But one thing for sure is that I am very grateful to know, when looking at this situation with Adam and Eve that the extent of God's forgiveness regarding the making of mistakes is lavish. Instead of the other way around.

Quote:
Paper 28 - Ministering Spirits of the Superuniverses
28:6:5 (314.4) And then, in accordance with the findings of the Significance of Origins, a mercy credit is established for the survival of each rational creature, a credit of lavish proportions and one of sufficient grace to insure the survival of every soul who really desires divine citizenship.


And then there's this:

Quote:
Paper 76 - The Second Garden
76:5:7 (853.1) Misfortune has not, however, been the sole lot of Urantia; this planet has also been the most fortunate in the local universe of Nebadon. Urantians should count it all gain if the blunders of their ancestors and the mistakes of their early world rulers so plunged the planet into such a hopeless state of confusion, all the more confounded by evil and sin, that this very background of darkness should so appeal to Michael of Nebadon that he selected this world as the arena wherein to reveal the loving personality of the Father in heaven. It is not that Urantia needed a Creator Son to set its tangled affairs in order; it is rather that the evil and sin on Urantia afforded the Creator Son a more striking background against which to reveal the matchless love, mercy, and patience of the Paradise Father.


I guess what I would like to discuss is where is the line drawn between being in self-forgetful service to others (in the way Jesus was) and learning to make "fewer plans concerning other personalities"?
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Interesting...

So...it is Adam's experiential wisdom you question? Only God has perfect wisdom. And God does not require, expect, or judge any experiential beings according to Divine perfection.

What is God's will? Do you know? Do you know that Adam's forgiveness of Eve and loyalty to her was against God's will or was disloyal?

The accusation of disloyalty is harsh and, so far at least, baseless and judgemental I think.

Experiential beings only gain wisdom by trial and error. Disloyalty is a particularly onerous form of selfishness. Did Adam betray someone in favor of himself?

We are told we can only receive mercy and forgiveness as we give it to others. What a tender portrayal of personal affection and loyalty this tragedy provides us. Such loyalty indeed to his partner and mate and mother of their children.

To compare the relationship of Material Daughters and Sons to mortals is an odd perspective. Eve did not die. Adam was not widowed or abandoned. Adam acted impestously perhaps and unwisely maybe...but he acted out of love.

Isn't such motivation God's will and way?

Perhaps speculations about other choices and outcomes could be considered without insinuations and accusations about disloyalty and disregard for God's will.

Our brother Adam was in a tough situation and made decisions he believed were motivated by love and by loyalty. Eve made a decision she thought would serve and accelerate their mission by succumbing to inexperience and frustration and disappointment and impatience.

Neither Eve nor Adam were found to be guilty of rebellion or sin or disloyalty to others...or toward God.

Personally, I don't think the lessons on our Mansion World Transition Ministers described in Paper 48 have anything at all to do with Material Sons and Daughters. They, like seraphim, always act in pairs.

Almost all beings do act in teams and communities and our codependency certainly results in shared repercussions and consequences. An interesting topic, but unrelated I think to your claims and concerns here about Adam's loyalties.

Frustration, disappointment, and failure are familiar to those who grow in progressive wisdom by trial and error, and the hammer and anvil of experience. We are going to learn to feast and fatten on our disappointments and relish the uncertainty of outcomes in this experiential adventure!

The more our plans and schemes and schedules and outcomes depend upon others then the more frustration and disappointment and uncertainty we must overcome I think!!

So...did you want to talk about Adam's loyalty?

Or Paper 48?

:-s

26:5.3 (291.3) That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: “In liaison with God, nothing—absolutely nothing—is impossible.”

8)

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Last edited by fanofVan on Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:39 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
What a tender portrayal of personal affection and loyalty this tragedy provides us. Such loyalty indeed to his partner and mate and mother of their children.

But what about his loyalty to his children? What about his loyalty to us, the human race? Was that where he drew the line between being self-forgetful and making fewer plans concerning other personalities?
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nodAmanaV wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
What a tender portrayal of personal affection and loyalty this tragedy provides us. Such loyalty indeed to his partner and mate and mother of their children.

But what about his loyalty to his children? What about his loyalty to us, the human race? Was that where he drew the line between being self-forgetful and making fewer plans concerning other personalities?


So then...the topic is NOT about Paper 48!

And you do question Adam's loyalties.

What about his children?

So...you feel betrayed then??

And you blame Adam for your suffering?

Most interesting indeed.

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How about sticking to the topic? Instead of how I feel. I probably shouldn't have used Adam and Eve as an example. In the perspective of our friendly universe, please forgive me for making that mistake.

What do you think is the meaning of "making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities" and in what way would you personally implement it in your life?
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nodAmanaV wrote:
How about sticking to the topic? Instead of how I feel. I probably shouldn't have used Adam and Eve as an example. In the perspective of our friendly universe, please forgive me for making that mistake.

What do you think is the meaning of "making fewer personal plans concerning other personalities" and in what way would you personally implement it in your life?


I am sticking to the topic. But you seem rather confused about what that is!

As to the text in Paper 48:

"Personally, I don't think the lessons on our Mansion World Transition Ministers described in Paper 48 have anything at all to do with Material Sons and Daughters. They, like seraphim, always act in pairs.

Almost all beings do act in teams and communities and our codependency certainly results in shared repercussions and consequences. An interesting topic, but unrelated I think to your claims and concerns here about Adam's loyalties.

Frustration, disappointment, and failure are familiar to those who grow in progressive wisdom by trial and error, and the hammer and anvil of experience. We are going to learn to feast and fatten on our disappointments and relish the uncertainty of outcomes in this experiential adventure!

The more our plans and schemes and schedules and outcomes depend upon others then the more frustration and disappointment and uncertainty we must overcome I think!!"

8)

So...what do you think it means?

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fanofVan wrote:
So...what do you think it means?

I think what it means is that in life, there is an inherent paradox with ourselves, our relationships with others, and the desire to do God's will that is impossible to avoid which, needs to be refined. Regarding Adam, if I had been in his shoes I doubt I would have done anything different.
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nodAmanaV wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
So...what do you think it means?

I think what it means is that in life, there is an inherent paradox with ourselves, our relationships with others, and the desire to do God's will that is impossible to avoid which, needs to be refined. Regarding Adam, if I had been in his shoes I doubt I would have done anything different.


Yes...paradox cannot be avoided but must be grappled with and penetrated and harmonized and resolved if much progress is to be made. In Experiential Wisdom there are always refinements and improvements to be found regarding priorities, strategies, tactics, and timing I think.

God measures our motives and intentions primarily I think, rather than our Wisdom.

Anyway, I hope so!

:biggrin:

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