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 Post subject: Re: Light
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MannyC wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
So what? Anyway, I would still like to know why Manny thinks the global summit is 'foolish'. But I guess that's not really the topic of the thread. I do think that international attention on the issue of climate change will drive an economic incentive to search out those new forms of energy that this thread addresses.


It is foolish because of the over the top hypocrisy it represents. First of all, 50,000 people that fly to Paris for a summit is quite a large carbon footprint. Big Foot would be jealous. Furthermore, there is nothing more than these 'leaders' want than a way to make money by exploiting a manufactured crisis. There is not a crisis of global warming. This deceptions are in the neural nets of computer models programmed to create a crisis. In the early 1970s it was an ice age that was going to get us.

They are foolish or stupid or very, very smart. The Earth is on the verge of a polarity flip that occurs all of the time in geologic magnitudes. This comes with greater variations in climate variances. BTW, CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. No one has proven that, but again, no one has questioned it.

Polarity flipping is something so common that it occurs in every atom millions of times per mili second. This is what particle scientists call the "Higgs Mechanism" but they do not really understand it themselves. They think that a particle flips left to right or right to left or end over end. Complete nonsense. That would take a tremendous amount of energy and they account for it at CERN. It is because the scientist do not understand charge. They do not understand electromagnetism because they have replaced physics with mathematics. They do not understand motion. TUB tells us all that we need to know right now and I am the fool on the hill that talks with a thousand voices and no one hears me.

These world leaders are only interested in capitalizing on this fake crisis in order to launder money using the poor and the underdeveloped countries. The leaders of those countries are only too eager to oblige. It is the Temple money changers all over again. They are hypocrites because they are not interested in clean energy at all. It's a con job of major proportions. Now they have tied it to global terrorism. How novel! They seem to be able to fool all of the people all of the time. Wake up children, Santa Claus is here!

BTW, put some money in the poor box this week to keep CERN funded. It has a billion of dollar appetite, not to mention the crisis of low caviar stores for those hungry physicists. They are always on the verge of some tremendous discovery. The edge of my seat is worn.

This all ties into light, Agon, because in order to understand light, you must understand motion. In order to understand motion you must understand gravity. In order to understand gravity you must understand its source. You must understand the Fulcrum.

The energy crisis could end in a years time, but this would thrust us into a global economic disaster with the precipitous fall in oil prices and all of the consequences that would come from that fact. These leaders know that and they won't lift a finger towards that end. They just want your money. It will take a lot of money, year after year, to keep us from burning up and keep your children from the terrorists. Please do it for "the children", they say. Meanwhile they plunge us deeper into a debtor state, in order to strap these very children with the sin of their greed. They cause these little ones to stumble. Woe unto them, woe unto them!


For an obstetrician and medical professional, you lay claim to an astonishing amount of scientific knowledge about climate science, physics, and economic theory, among other things.


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MannyC wrote:
[. . .] There is not a crisis of global warming. [. . .]
The Earth is on the verge of a polarity flip that occurs all of the time in geologic magnitudes. This comes with greater variations in climate variances. [. . .]
They do not understand electromagnetism because they have replaced physics with mathematics. They do not understand motion. TUB tells us all that we need to know right now and I am the fool on the hill that talks with a thousand voices and no one hears me.
[. . .] Wake up children, Santa Claus is here! [. . .]
This all ties into light, Agon, because in order to understand light, you must understand motion. In order to understand motion you must understand gravity. In order to understand gravity you must understand its source. You must understand the Fulcrum.
[. . .]

"MannyC" - Based on your understanding of the UB, it would seem that you have all of the answers, yet you provide no specifics as to what "TUB tells us" and that it is here now in TUB but, from what I have read in your many narrations, it would seem that your understanding is limited to your belief that the answers are in the UB? You claim that todays science is false, Okay but, your science has, to date not provided solutions only fallacies. This is no indicator to restate your understanding or beliefs but there are various evidences that we as a Global civilization should take heed to these "variations in climate" regardless of their cause which one must assume that pollution on a grand scale in various areas of the Globe is not a good thing, specifically in China where if for no other reason to curtail their pollution would be a betterment to health concerns for their people? So, if one can place the blame on Global warming, and something positive is done, then who cares why, or because, as long as it gets better? Or, do you really not care about pollution in general?

Then your statement above, "that talks with a thousand voices" -- are you actually indicating that you hear voices?, or are you making a different point there?, in that you have mentioned in the past that you talk to your TA on a regular basis and indicated that, we should all take note of what our TA has to say? If the latter is an actual for you then how do you validate that this information is not something from your unconscious or pre-conscious mind. Where, it is one thing to state your beliefs but another to prove them?

You state above that one must understand several things such as the "source" of "gravity" and the "Fulcrum." Okay, if you say so but, as the Urantia Book indicates and describes these things they are related to the universes and or paradise, yet we are limited to our understanding of this world and its functional principles as we know them? So, it is one thing to say this or that but in order for our science to prove anything it must be understandable in a language which just so happens to be mathematics or the language of physics to the best of our ability. We once talked about equations which required that to define the universe they needed to divide by zero, where my understanding for this is that the universe does not exist as we understand it, and the UB seems to concur with its portrayal of the Mansion Worlds, which by all definition are a spiritual realm?

In general the one world government as portrayed in the UB is different from what has already been established on this planet because the one world order in actuality is the monetary control of this world which eventually will, if not already, is the control of assets? Who owns the world, or its assets, today? Its all on paper, or hidden within the Corporate World. What you will see is a one world corporation where all the nations and their governments, will be subject to this corporate entity and its board member(s).

If what the UB indicates, regarding the celestial administration of this world, it would need some way of manipulating and adjudicating the miscarriages which have been building over centuries, where even if you were able to produce unlimited cheep energy, who would be in control of this produce, the people of this world? Therefore, it has been mentioned that the UB has appeared in a time where it is most needed or, to institute an ebb in time, so that changes can be made for the better, even if things need to get worse before that ebb in time can be manipulated or manifested through the adjudication of errors past?


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
For an obstetrician and medical professional, you lay claim to an astonishing amount of scientific knowledge about climate science, physics, and economic theory, among other things.


Before going to Medical School, I got a Bachelors degree in mechanical engineering and a Masters in biomedical engineering. I have taken graduate courses in mathematics, engineering economics and environmental engineering. Besides, I read as much as I can. One must never stop learning. Choose your doctor well and one that keeps up with continuing medical education. Make sure they are Board Certified in their specialty. This assures at least that they have passed recent certification criteria that forces them to be current in their credentialing.


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Caligastia wrote:
"MannyC" - Based on your understanding of the UB, it would seem that you have all of the answers, yet you provide no specifics as to what "TUB tells us" and that it is here now in TUB but, from what I have read in your many narrations, it would seem that your understanding is limited to your belief that the answers are in the UB?


No, I do not have all the answers but I can read TUB. For example, TUB says that "Space is a system of associated points" and that "Time is is a succession of instants".

The Holy Trinity is an association are are associated. This tells us that the "points" of space are one and the same, origin and destiny.

The statement about time tells us that time is discrete.


Conclusion: Neither time nor space are coordinate! You may not see the incredible implications of this revelation but I do. And I am not going to explain it to you. See if you can figure it out for yourself, Dorothy. (metaphor)


Caligastia wrote:
Then your statement above, "that talks with a thousand voices" -- are you actually indicating that you hear voices?, or are you
making a different point there?


Look up "metaphor". Get a Beetles album and listen to the art form called "music and lyrics".

Caligastia wrote:
Then your statement above, "that talks with a thousand voices" -- are you actually indicating that you hear voices?, or are you making a different point there?, in that you have mentioned in the past that you talk to your TA on a regular basis and indicated that, we should all take note of what our TA has to say? If the latter is an actual for you then how do you validate that this information is not something from your unconscious or pre-conscious mind. Where, it is one thing to state your beliefs but another to prove them?


Do you want me to prove to you that God exists? And how do you know that I do not know? Your sourness has become bitter. I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. I am not demanding anything from you.

Caligastia wrote:
You state above that one must understand several things such as the "source" of "gravity" and the "Fulcrum." Okay, if you say so but, as the Urantia Book indicates and describes these things they are related to the universes and or paradise, yet we are limited to our understanding of this world and its functional principles as we know them? So, it is one thing to say this or that but in order for our science to prove anything it must be understandable in a language which just so happens to be mathematics or the language of physics to the best of our ability. We once talked about equations which required that to define the universe they needed to divide by zero, where my understanding for this is that the universe does not exist as we understand it, and the UB seems to concur with its portrayal of the Mansion Worlds, which by all definition are a spiritual realm?


It is not my fault that you have not decided to open your mind to the Infinite. BTW, the Mansion Worlds are not a spiritual realm, they are a Morontial realm.

Caligastia wrote:
In general the one world government as portrayed in the UB is different from what has already been established on this planet because the one world order in actuality is the monetary control of this world which eventually will, if not already, is the control of assets? Who owns the world, or its assets, today? Its all on paper, or hidden within the Corporate World. What you will see is a one world corporation where all the nations and their governments, will be subject to this corporate entity and its board member(s).


??????????????????


Caligastia wrote:
If what the UB indicates, regarding the celestial administration of this world, it would need some way of manipulating and adjudicating the miscarriages which have been building over centuries, where even if you were able to produce unlimited cheep energy, who would be in control of this produce, the people of this world? Therefore, it has been mentioned that the UB has appeared in a time where it is most needed or, to institute an ebb in time, so that changes can be made for the better, even if things need to get worse before that ebb in time can be manipulated or manifested through the adjudication of errors past?


The devise I am envisioning will be in the control of the individual. It requires no grid, no regulation. It can be hidden. It can go anywhere. It will take control away from the collective and place it back on the individual person. There will be no patents and no ownership but to the individual.


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MannyC wrote:
Caligastia wrote:
"MannyC" - Based on your understanding of the UB, it would seem that you have all of the answers, yet you provide no specifics as to what "TUB tells us" and that it is here now in TUB but, from what I have read in your many narrations, it would seem that your understanding is limited to your belief that the answers are in the UB?

No, I do not have all the answers but I can read TUB. For example, TUB says that "Space is a system of associated points" and that "Time is is a succession of instants".

The Holy Trinity is an association are are associated. This tells us that the "points" of space are one and the same, origin and destiny.

The statement about time tells us that time is discrete.

Conclusion: Neither time nor space are coordinate! You may not see the incredible implications of this revelation but I do. And I am not going to explain it to you. See if you can figure it out for yourself, Dorothy. (metaphor)

“MannyC” – you seem to be proving my point in your reply above.
Where I’m not sure how you can associate the “Holy Trinity” (three in one) with “associated points” in space, where even if we present that the “first source and center”, the Father part of the “Holy Trinity” as “paradise”, as one point and, then the “third source and center” with the “Holy Spirit” or, as the UB indicates as resultant matter, or temporal and then the “second source and center” with movement, which then cannot be a “point” because it would be motion in relation to the “associated points”, then you state that these “’points’ of space are one and the same, origin and destiny”, where “destiny” is associated with future, seems to be irrelative to what you are attempting to say above?
Then you state that “time is discrete”, which indicates that “time” is what?: “discrete” in Mathematics: (a)“(of a topology or topological space) having the property that every subset is an open set”, (b)”defined only for an isolated set of points: a discrete variable”, (c)”using only arithmetic and algebra; not involving calculus: discrete methods.” Or, for its general definition - “discrete” – “consisting of or characterized by distinct or individual parts; discontinuous”, or, “apart or detached from others; separate”.
So, when you say - “The statement about time tells us that time is discrete” – what or how are you using the word “discrete”? Or must one use a mindreading technic in order to understand what the hell you are attempting to say?

This is a general problem that I have with your narratives and I’m sure that others may be having the same problem, where when I attempt to ask for a more defined definition or how, what you say according to your understanding of the UB, you present “And I am not going to explain it to you. See if you can figure it out for yourself, Dorothy.” What kind of attitude is that in response to a question or query? What it tells me is that the presenter doesn’t really know?

Quote:
(1297.2) 118:3.1 Only by ubiquity could Deity unify time-space manifestations to the finite conception, for time is a succession of instants while space is a system of associated points. You do, after all, perceive time by analysis and space by synthesis. You co-ordinate and associate these two dissimilar conceptions by the integrating insight of personality. Of all the animal world only man possesses this time-space perceptibility. To an animal, motion has a meaning, but motion exhibits value only to a creature of personality status.

The individual UB citations which you used above come from the previous Urantia Book quotation. Where you have used the word “coordinate!”, however the UB uses “co-ordinate”, which they do not have the same meaning.
“coordinate” as an adjective: “of the same order or degree; equal in rank or importance”, as a noun: “a person or thing of equal rank or importance; an equal”, but, in reference to mathematics: “using or pertaining to systems of coordinates”, or “any of the magnitudes that serve to define the position of a point, line, or the like, by reference to a fixed figure, system of lines, etc.”
But the UB used “co-ordinate” which uses the prefix “co-“, which has the following definitions: “1. together; joint or jointly; mutual or mutually: coproduction”, “2. indicating partnership or equality: cofounder, copilot”, “3. to the same or a similar degree: coextend”, “4. (in mathematics and astronomy) of the complement of an angle: cosecant, codeclination”.
Linked with “”ordinate”, noun, “Mathematics. (in plane Cartesian coordinates) the y-coordinate of a point: its distance from the x-axis measured parallel to the y-axis.”
Which one can assume that the UB may be associating this word with “Mathematics” but then indicates that; “You co-ordinate and associate these two dissimilar conceptions”, which segregates “time-space”, “by the integrating insight of personality.” Therefore, I ask, how does “insight” “of personality”, play into the mathematical or geometric aspect of “time-space”?

“MannyC” - how can anyone take you seriously if you will not attempt to answer a simple question about “two dissimilar conceptions”??

It becomes difficult to understand your concepts when you cannot explain what is in your own mind? I do not question your education, only the way you apply it to their practical presentation, to describe you concepts.


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MannyC wrote:
Caligastia wrote:
Then your statement above, "that talks with a thousand voices" -- are you actually indicating that you hear voices?, or are you making a different point there?, in that you have mentioned in the past that you talk to your TA on a regular basis and indicated that, we should all take note of what our TA has to say? If the latter is an actual for you then how do you validate that this information is not something from your unconscious or pre-conscious mind. Where, it is one thing to state your beliefs but another to prove them?

Do you want me to prove to you that God exists? And how do you know that I do not know? Your sourness has become bitter. I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. I am not demanding anything from you.

Who said anything about whether “God exists?”
Did I indicate that you don’t “know that I [you] do not know?” that “God exists?” – I have indicated that you have mentioned in the past that you talk or are in communication with your TA, where I can perform a search to present you with your own words but, that is not my point? My point is that in association with your previous statement regarding "that talks with a thousand voices" would be a viable question to ascertain your source for your concepts?
Of course you are not demanding anything from me or anyone else but with your insistence of your presentations and their association with the UB, presents questions as to your understanding with the material you present and your narrations as being obvious that every reader would understand what you understand from the Urantia Book? Metaphor, aside but when one is given lemonade, one might question whether it is made with real lemons.


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Caligastia wrote:
MannyC wrote:
Caligastia wrote:
Then your statement above, "that talks with a thousand voices" -- are you actually indicating that you hear voices?, or are you making a different point there?, in that you have mentioned in the past that you talk to your TA on a regular basis and indicated that, we should all take note of what our TA has to say? If the latter is an actual for you then how do you validate that this information is not something from your unconscious or pre-conscious mind. Where, it is one thing to state your beliefs but another to prove them?

Do you want me to prove to you that God exists? And how do you know that I do not know? Your sourness has become bitter. I do not have to prove anything to you or anyone else. I am not demanding anything from you.

Who said anything about whether “God exists?”
Did I indicate that you don’t “know that I [you] do not know?” that “God exists?” – I have indicated that you have mentioned in the past that you talk or are in communication with your TA, where I can perform a search to present you with your own words but, that is not my point? My point is that in association with your previous statement regarding "that talks with a thousand voices" would be a viable question to ascertain your source for your concepts?
Of course you are not demanding anything from me or anyone else but with your insistence of your presentations and their association with the UB, presents questions as to your understanding with the material you present and your narrations as being obvious that every reader would understand what you understand from the Urantia Book? Metaphor, aside but when one is given lemonade, one might question whether it is made with real lemons.


Think what you want, it is no concern of mine. I will strive with you no more, not that you were the audience I sought. As I have said to you many times before, take it or leave it. A gift need not be received, only given. O:)

I will answer your last questions, not for your sake but for those who might willing to hear. It will have to be later, I have some TV to watch with my wife.


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Caligastia wrote:
“MannyC” – you seem to be proving my point in your reply above.
Where I’m not sure how you can associate the “Holy Trinity” (three in one) with “associated points” in space, where even if we present that the “first source and center”, the Father part of the “Holy Trinity” as “paradise”, as one point and, then the “third source and center” with the “Holy Spirit” or, as the UB indicates as resultant matter, or temporal and then the “second source and center” with movement, which then cannot be a “point” because it would be motion in relation to the “associated points”, then you state that these “’points’ of space are one and the same, origin and destiny”, where “destiny” is associated with future, seems to be irrelative to what you are attempting to say above?


There is only origin and destiny is the whole "point". We move in space from point to point. These are not coordinates on an x,y,z axis. When TUB uses the word, "associated", that means that they are one, as the Trinity is One. As Paradise is Unique (One). What you do not understand is that in Paradise there is no future because there is no time. It is always NOW.


Caligastia wrote:
Then you state that “time is discrete”, which indicates that “time” is what?: “discrete” in Mathematics: (a)“(of a topology or topological space) having the property that every subset is an open set”, (b)”defined only for an isolated set of points: a discrete variable”, (c)”using only arithmetic and algebra; not involving calculus: discrete methods.” Or, for its general definition - “discrete” – “consisting of or characterized by distinct or individual parts; discontinuous”, or, “apart or detached from others; separate”.
So, when you say - “The statement about time tells us that time is discrete” – what or how are you using the word “discrete”? Or must one use a mindreading technic in order to understand what the hell you are attempting to say?



Discrete means that time is a succession of "no time" or instants. Time is circular simultaneity. Think of time as a circle that is like a clock. Every fifteen minutes, or 90 degrees, the clock gets bigger in a quantum jump of radius. Or smaller every 90 degrees. These quantum jumps are discrete changes in the radius of time. This is akin to the jumping of electron shells in orbitals in a quantum fashion. These are discrete changes in time. I would need a power point presentation to really explain it fully.


Caligastia wrote:
This is a general problem that I have with your narratives and I’m sure that others may be having the same problem, where when I attempt to ask for a more defined definition or how, what you say according to your understanding of the UB, you present “And I am not going to explain it to you. See if you can figure it out for yourself, Dorothy.” What kind of attitude is that in response to a question or query? What it tells me is that the presenter doesn’t really know?


You don't ask nicely and you close your mind immediately. Why, I do not know. I cannot make you or anyone see what I am seeing.

Caligastia wrote:
The individual UB citations which you used above come from the previous Urantia Book quotation. Where you have used the word “coordinate!”, however the UB uses “co-ordinate”, which they do not have the same meaning.


OK. By coordinate I mean that they do not conform to coordinate points on a graph that stand for location and position in space. I moving space, there cannot be anything defined as position or location. Origin and destiny are not a position in space. Paradise has no location in space. Paradise is origin and destiny at the same time, NOW. Time travels from NOW to NOW to NOW, ad infinitum.

Neither space nor time go anywhere but from NOW to NOW. They go together because space and time are inseparable. There is no positions in space that are not NOW points. There is no stopping "place" but Paradise. The Unqualified Absolute exists in nether Paradise. The Unqualified Absolute pervades all of space. There is no place like home. We never leave Paradise, we just move to and from it. Little excursions into the shadowy illusions of space-time. We never leave God and He never leaves us. We just live in Him as a shadow until we wake up to His reality. How can I possibly explain that to anyone. I can only experience it, but I cannot explain my experience, I just know. You must know by your own experience.


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MannyC wrote:
[1] There is only origin and destiny is the whole "point".
[2] We move in space from point to point.
[3] These are not coordinates on an x,y,z axis.
[4] When TUB uses the word, "associated", that means that they are one, as the Trinity is One.
[5] As Paradise is Unique (One).
[6] What you do not understand is that in Paradise there is no future because there is no time.
[7] It is always NOW.

“MannyC” – I understand your specific references as used above, specifically what you mention in “[6-7]” as I have taken the liberty to separate your sentences to keep from having to repeat then here. For “[6]” the UB does indicate that paradise has no time, primarily because it has been indicated that at that “point”, there is no or little motion, which might indicate that this “point” is the transition point that might be considered as anti-time, being a threshold between an anti-universe compressed at that point reflecting motion or time-space, where when you state “[7]” it could be relative to that point only but, also relative to what you indicate in “[4]” where the associative points in relation to a “triune” or “trinity” in that there are three points (anti-point, actual-point, and focal-point) where if relative to time, past (was) present (now) and future (potential); relative to space, and/or matter, would reflect vibration, like a tuning fork like vortex where the actual-point is always “now” regardless of the distance along the parallel paths of the anti-point and focal-point. All matter can be translated to vibration or frequency, and if one takes “[5]” as the origination point of gravity or its origin, in can be translated to what we understand as “center of mass”, or as can be associated to paradise, in the UB.
Quote:
“In physics, the center of mass of a distribution of mass in space is the unique point where the weighted relative position of the distributed mass sums to zero or the point where if a force is applied causes it to move in direction of force without rotation. The distribution of mass is balanced around the center of mass and the average of the weighted position coordinates of the distributed mass defines its coordinates.”
So as you indicated in “[5]” you would be correct but relative to two other points which would make up your “trinity” scenario. In what you state in “[3]” the “origin” point of “x,y,z” is the “coordinate” where if “x,y,z” are at 90 degrees angles from the “origin” point, they would represent an infinite area which could be represented as three dimensional area but, could also be associated to vibration where movement between any of the “axis” or “crystallographic axis” – “rotational symmetry”.
Regarding “[2]” where the key is “move” or motion from “point to point” reflects time to travel these point therefore these points cannot be considered as “now” where one is the beginning and the other is the ending point and the “now” is that specific point represented as a moment which is the actual real-point noted by time between the other points, where in “[1]” as I mentioned before, “origin” would be the past-point (the, I was) - “destiny” would be the future-point (the, I will be) and, the present reality, the “now” (the , I am) would not reflect the “whole” or as mentioned in the following UB quotes, “reality totality” or “infinity”.

Quote:
(1152.1) 105:0.1 TO EVEN high orders of universe intelligences infinity is only partially comprehensible, and the finality of reality is only relatively understandable. The human mind, as it seeks to penetrate the eternity-mystery of the origin and destiny of all that is called real, may helpfully approach the problem by conceiving eternity-infinity as an almost limitless ellipse which is produced by one absolute cause, and which functions throughout this universal circle of endless diversification, ever seeking some absolute and infinite potential of destiny.

(1152.2) 105:0.2 When the mortal intellect attempts to grasp the concept of reality totality, such a finite mind is face to face with infinity-reality; reality totality is infinity and therefore can never be fully comprehended by any mind that is subinfinite in concept capacity.

(1152.3) 105:0.3 The human mind can hardly form an adequate concept of eternity existences, and without such comprehension it is impossible to portray even our concepts of reality totality. Nevertheless, we may attempt such a presentation, although we are fully aware that our concepts must be subjected to profound distortion in the process of translation-modification to the comprehension level of mortal mind.


Quote:
5. Space and Time

(134.6) 12:5.1 Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized. The totality of space respiration destroys its local value as a time source.

(135.1) 12:5.2 Space is not infinite, even though it takes origin from Paradise; not absolute, for it is pervaded by the Unqualified Absolute. We do not know the absolute limits of space, but we do know that the absolute of time is eternity.

(135.2) 12:5.3 Time and space are inseparable only in the time-space creations, the seven superuniverses. Nontemporal space (space without time) theoretically exists, but the only truly nontemporal place is Paradise area. Nonspatial time (time without space) exists in mind of the Paradise level of function.

(135.3) 12:5.4 The relatively motionless midspace zones impinging on Paradise and separating pervaded from unpervaded space are the transition zones from time to eternity, hence the necessity of Paradise pilgrims becoming unconscious during this transit when it is to culminate in Paradise citizenship. Time-conscious visitors can go to Paradise without thus sleeping, but they remain creatures of time.

(135.4) 12:5.5 Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Man’s mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man’s mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.

(135.5) 12:5.6 There are three different levels of time cognizance:

- (135.6) 12:5.7 1. Mind-perceived time — consciousness of sequence, motion, and a sense of duration.

- (135.7) 12:5.8 2. Spirit-perceived time — insight into motion Godward and the awareness of the motion of ascent to levels of increasing divinity.

- (135.8) 12:5.9 3. Personality creates a unique time sense out of insight into Reality plus a consciousness of presence and an awareness of duration.

(135.9) 12:5.10 Unspiritual animals know only the past and live in the present. Spirit-indwelt man has powers of prevision (insight); he may visualize the future. Only forward-looking and progressive attitudes are personally real. Static ethics and traditional morality are just slightly superanimal. Nor is stoicism a high order of self-realization. Ethics and morals become truly human when they are dynamic and progressive, alive with universe reality.

(135.10) 12:5.11 The human personality is not merely a concomitant of time-and-space events; the human personality can also act as the cosmic cause of such events.


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Caligastia wrote:
“MannyC” – I understand your specific references as used above, specifically what you mention in “[6-7]” as I have taken the liberty to separate your sentences to keep from having to repeat then here. For “[6]” the UB does indicate that paradise has no time, primarily because it has been indicated that at that “point”, there is no or little motion, which might indicate that this “point” is the transition point that might be considered as anti-time, being a threshold between an anti-universe compressed at that point reflecting motion or time-space, where when you state “[7]” it could be relative to that point only but, also relative to what you indicate in “[4]” where the associative points in relation to a “triune” or “trinity” in that there are three points (anti-point, actual-point, and focal-point) where if relative to time, past (was) present (now) and future (potential); relative to space, and/or matter, would reflect vibration, like a tuning fork like vortex where the actual-point is always “now” regardless of the distance along the parallel paths of the anti-point and focal-point. All matter can be translated to vibration or frequency, and if one takes “[5]” as the origination point of gravity or its origin, in can be translated to what we understand as “center of mass”, or as can be associated to paradise, in the UB.


Do you realize this is one huge sentence, Cal? I will try to respond, none the less. Paradise is timeless. There is no motion or space on Paradise. It cannot be a transition point because this implies change. Without time there is no anti-time. There is counter-time but only in the sense that there is relative motion of counter rotations (northern and southern hemispheres) and counter revolving space levels. There cannot be an anti-universe because Paradise is the source of all material in the Master Universe and Paradise is unique. There is no anti-Paradise. Motion is reflected at boundaries. That boundary is ONENESS. But it is not Paradise, but a "functional extension" of Paradise of mid space zones. Motion cannot ever touch Paradise.


11:7.2 ...Paradise is the actually motionless nucleus of the relatively quiescent zones existing between pervaded and unpervaded space. Geographically these zones appear to be a relative extension of Paradise, but there probably is some motion in them. We...



The word "associated" is used in TUB to describe the oneness of the Trinity and the oneness of the system of points of space. They are one because origin and destiny is the same. There are no other points to contend with in space. There is no x,y,z coordinates of space like the cartesian coordinate system because that system of space is ABSOLUTE. Space is not absolute. Space moves. And absolute space could not possibly move. A clear revelation of TUB.

There are not three points, only ONE. Your tuning fork analogy is describing a "nodal point" and that is the same point as origin and destiny. Nodal points are fulcra points, and Paradise is that very fulcrum. This is the theory behind the perpetual motion devise that TUB has blueprinted.

I think that you get the jest of the issue but our words are different. Those nodal points are NOW points, and they are all the same point. This can be only because these NOW points are outside of time and space. So, they can pervade space but not be part of, or in, space and time, yet are the focus of space. It is true that Paradise is the "Center of Mass" because it centers everything, and it is massive. The Ultimaton has Paradise as its nucleus, and therefore, also Havona, because they are an inseparable Eternal Central Creation.

Physics has the concept of "center of mass" all wrong. This is exclusive of the Central Universe of perfection. Space-time creations have polarity. The one center does not exist as it is pulled to the two poles of the dual creations. This then becomes a "line of mass" corresponding to the axis of rotation. That is why TUB states that "(linear) gravity acts preferentially in the plane perpendicular to mass". Did you miss that? How can anything be perpendicular to a point? This is a huge clue that has flown over everyones head. I've been screaming about it for a while now. Any takers?

This "line of mass" that is the axis of rotation of massive objects in space-time creations does not conform to a spherical gravitational field such as physics has asserted since the time of Newton. It must be a toroidal field conforming to the geometry of the circles of Apollonius.


Caligastia wrote:
So as you indicated in “[5]” you would be correct but relative to two other points which would make up your “trinity” scenario. In what you state in “[3]” the “origin” point of “x,y,z” is the “coordinate” where if “x,y,z” are at 90 degrees angles from the “origin” point, they would represent an infinite area which could be represented as three dimensional area but, could also be associated to vibration where movement between any of the “axis” or “crystallographic axis” – “rotational symmetry”.
Regarding “[2]” where the key is “move” or motion from “point to point” reflects time to travel these point therefore these points cannot be considered as “now” where one is the beginning and the other is the ending point and the “now” is that specific point represented as a moment which is the actual real-point noted by time between the other points, where in “[1]” as I mentioned before, “origin” would be the past-point (the, I was) - “destiny” would be the future-point (the, I will be) and, the present reality, the “now” (the , I am) would not reflect the “whole” or as mentioned in the following UB quotes, “reality totality” or “infinity”.


The only relation in the Universe of Universes is orthogonality. The three circles of the Trinity as symbolized as TUB logo are mutually orthogonal or perpendicular. They are at 90 degrees to each other geometrically. They are concentric, which means that they share the same center. This is pretty obvious. However, what is not so obvious is that if you were to separate the three circles in equal directions and create three apparent centers, the circles remain orthogonal! This is proven geometrically. Now you have three points as you have stated, Cal. But the three circles are still one and they share the same one center! This is the mind bender of infinity. They remain ONE and share the same ONE center Point.

There is no motion in a point, a line, or a plane. And they are ONE, in orthogonal relationship. The x,y,z axes are three lines that are ONE and infinite because they come together at a point of origin and extend infinitely. The planes, xy, yz, and xz are infinite and come together at a point of origin. They separate eight quadrants of space-time but are not part of them. Nodal points are always "located" on the zero of x, y or z lines. Motion is curved, never straight. Motion is in arcs governed by Pi. You must use a compass to get anywhere across space. A compass is a transcendental instrument that has Pi inherent in its construction. A compass has three points, the vertex and the two points. One of those two points is used as a center of origin, the other is created by way of tension where a radius is provided through their mutual separation. Both of these points take origin from the vertex of the compass. Therefore, all three points can be considered to be the same, extensions of the vertex. When one traces out a circle or an arc with a compass, you have drawn an infinite number of points! A circle is a center with radius. And there are infinite radii in a circle or any arc! Cool! With this in mind, you can imagine traversing the fetters of infinity, going from point of origin to point of destiny as we move in space and through space.

0:3.21 As a time-space creature would view the origin and differentiation of Reality, the eternal and infinite I AM achieved Deity liberation from the fetters of unqualified infinity through the exercise of inherent and eternal free will, and this divorcement from unqualified infinity produced the first absolute divinity-tension. This tension of infinity differential is resolved by the Universal Absolute, which functions to unify and co-ordinate the dynamic infinity of Total Deity and the static infinity of the Unqualified Absolute.


One mention of parallel lines. They do not exist because there is only one line. A parallel line would imply two lines and that is impossible. That would mean that there is a distance between lines. Distance requires both space and time and a line has no dimensionality to support any motion whatsoever.

Parallel curves are a reality but only in the parabolic space of Havona, where the perfect spheres of Havona align in parallel curves as they encircle Paradise.


134:8.6 Near the end of the mountain sojourn Jesus asked his Father if he might be permitted to hold conference with his Satania enemies as the Son of Man, as Joshua ben Joseph. This request was granted.


Jesus held conference with his Satania enemies with his human mind and his indwelling TA. These were brilliant Lanonandek Sons. And he did just fine with his "human mind" with help from his Father Fragment.



48:6.26   ...Even on Urantia, these seraphim teach the everlasting truth: If your own mind does not serve you well, you can exchange it for the mind of Jesus of Nazareth, who always serves you well....

Why highlight our limitations as a mortal mind by quoting from Paper 105 written by an unknown Melchizedek? Perhaps he would think differently had he had the opportunity and actual experience of thinking with a human mind like Jesus and was gifted with a TA.


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MannyC - Repeating the same nonsense over and over is pointless and annoying and not in the interest of the forum. You don't help other readers or promote TUB in any way, on the contrary, I think you may confuse and deter new readers with your absurd claims regarding the science in the book. If this is actually your intention (of which I’m quite certain) then I can only wait for the admins to ban you once more. Otherwise, get professional help. Voices in your head are not your TA, they are most likely a symptom of mental illness..


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By the way, I mentioned TUB’s notion that "gravity always acts preferentially in the plane perpendicular to the mass" to you here: Relativity and TUB. Again, this ultimately means that your consciousness can be understood as a periodic (discrete) sample or projection in three dimensions of a higher dimensional (continuous) oscillation. Nothing more, nothing less. It’s really that simple.. O:)
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11:8.9 Paradise is the absolute source and the eternal focal point of all energy-matter in the universe of universes. The Unqualified Absolute is the revealer, regulator, and repository of that which has Paradise as its source and origin. The universal presence of the Unqualified Absolute seems to be equivalent to the concept of a potential infinity of gravity extension, an elastic tension of Paradise presence. This concept aids us in grasping the fact that everything is drawn inward towards Paradise. The illustration is crude but nonetheless helpful. It also explains why gravity always acts preferentially in the plane perpendicular to the mass, a phenomenon indicative of the differential dimensions of Paradise and the surrounding creations.


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12:4.13 When the universes expand and contract, the material masses in pervaded space alternately move against and with the pull of Paradise gravity. The work that is done in moving the material energy mass of creation is space work but not power- energy work.


Space is unresponsive to gravity.
Space works against the pull of Paradise gravity.
Space is in matter.
Matter is in space.
Light is matter.
Light moves with matter.

This expanding space can work for our needs, at least for the next half billions years. If we can make a devise that channels matter in the spiral fashion of space motion, the spinning wheel will spin for a good long time. The technology is simple and cheap and available.

Copper wiring will work with electrons, but fiber optic cable and will work with light also. Because we are moving against the pull of Paradise gravity, Paradise gravity will pull the matter inward yet the space in the matter will continue to expand outward. This will spin our top at least for a half a billion years. Wouldn't it be nice to harness this gift from God? I read the blueprint from TUB. I can build that devise, I think. O:)


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I can see a picture of one onion. But it is true that a single onion usually has several layers.

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I can see a picture of one onion. But it is true that a single onion usually has several layers.

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